5
   

The Thing About Guns . . .

 
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:36 pm
@Glennn,
As I said, they failed in their responsibility to prevent the shooting....and the shooter remains responsible for doing the shooting.

The concept of 'Blame' is a moronic concept. It stops people being objective. And in most circumstances, Blame also stops them problem solving ('I've found who is to blame, so I don't need to look into this any further' is a very common reaction)...which leads to the same problem happening over and over. Ie. It's moronic because they want the incident not to happen again.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:41 pm
@vikorr,
No. They were guilty of gross negligence that resulted in a lot of death. Blame is about finding out who is responsible for such a deadly oversight and dealing with THAT so that it doesn't happen again. Of course, you're not opposed to that, right?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:43 pm
@Glennn,
Actually, you'll find that 'blame':
- is almost always used to shift 'responsibility' from the doer/decision maker to someone else; and
- almost always stops problem solving the contributing circumstances

Sometimes people will just blame where they mean personal responsibility...but its favourite use is in the above sense.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:44 pm
@vikorr,
IT WAS THEIR FRICKIN' JOB!!

You're so forgiving. . .
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:45 pm
@Glennn,
Once again - I said they failed at their responsibility to prevent the shooting

And once again - the shooter is responsible for pulling the trigger

Are you so indoctrinated into the concept of 'blame' that you can't differentiate between the two responsibilities?
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:52 pm
@vikorr,
No. I'm pointing out your acceptance of that kind of deadly negligence. Must be the old "no harm, no foul" philosophy you're throwing out there. Unfortunately, that's not the case here. Kids died. The people hired to stop them didn't. They don't deserve any kind of punishment, do they?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:53 pm
@vikorr,
Let me show you the difference more clearly:
- if he was abused at home, the individual abusers retain responsibility for that abuse...which became a contributing factor
- if multiple people bullied the shooter, each individual is responsible for their individual bullying behaviour...which became contributing factors
- if a person sold an illegal gun to the shooter...the seller is responsible for a contributing factor (enabling the shooter)
...and so on, and so on,

- the shooter remains responsible for pulling the trigger

and

- the FBI retains responsibility for not stopping it after receiving clear tips
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 03:58 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
No. I'm pointing out your acceptance of that kind of deadly negligence.
What drugs are you one that you keep failing to read:

PART C: Before an action can happen (like in this case), people sometimes have a chance to stop it from happening. The FBI is one of a number of people/entities responsible for not enacting PART C

As I said, they failed in their responsibility to prevent the shooting

Once again - I said they failed at their responsibility to prevent the shooting

Seriously, how do you miss me stating 3 times that the FBI failed at their responsibility to stop the shooting?

That failed responsibility to stop it, exists side by side with the shooter being repsonsible for pulling the trigger and doing the shooting.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 07:51 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
- the FBI retains responsibility for not stopping it after receiving clear tips

Didn't I just say that?
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:02 pm
@vikorr,
And what was the punishment? What are the names of the agents who received clear messages of an impending tragedy but didn't bother to follow protocol?

A terroristic threat is a crime generally involving a threat to commit violence communicated with the intent to terrorize another, to cause evacuation of a building, or to cause serious public inconvenience, in reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience. It may mean an offense against property or involving danger to another person that may include but is not limited to recklessly endangering another person, harassment, stalking, ethnic intimidation, and criminal mischief.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terroristic-threat/

In light of the alleged rash of school shootings, when someone goes online and threatens to shoot school kids (become a school shooter), that constitutes a written threat to commit murder. That's why the FBI admitted that that information should have been assessed as a potential threat to life, and that they failed to act.

More on that:

The FBI said that on September 24 it was notified about a comment on YouTube from someone with the username “nikolas cruz.” The comment said: “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.” The notification came from a video blogger on You Tube who found it disturbing enough that it didn't feel sufficient to simply flag it as inappropriate. So he emailed an image to the FBI. When that bounced back, he called the local FBI field office.

An Instagram account that belonged to Cruz showed photographs of firearms, including one showing a gun's laser sight pointed at a street. Another photo showed at least half-a-dozen weapons laid out on a bed with the caption "arsenal". A third photo showed a dead frog's bloody body.

The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday. A person close to Cruz contacted the FBI on January 5 to report concerns about him, the FBI said in a statement Friday. But the bureau did not appropriately follow established protocols in following up on the tip. The FBI said the caller provided information about "Cruz's gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting." The information should have been assessed as a "potential threat to life," the bureau said. The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Now, what drugs are you on that you have trouble assessing the seriousness of the FBI ignoring everybody's nagging and just letting everything just play out.
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:08 pm
@Glennn,
It is ultimately the shooter's sole responsibility to refrain from mass killings. Your argument that someone/some entity is also to blame is misplaced.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:20 pm
@neptuneblue,
I know, right? We should thank the good people at the FBI for not doing their job, and then treat them as if nobody died.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:29 pm
@Glennn,
vikorr wrote:
- the FBI retains responsibility for not stopping it after receiving clear tips
glennn wrote:
Didn't I just say that?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Your immediately previous post said:

glennn wrote:
I'm pointing out your acceptance of that kind of deadly negligence.


...and I pointed to the THREE times I’m already said they retain responsibility for their failure to stop the shooting (while the shooter retains responsibility for pulling the trigger)

- you are now agreeing with my stance that the FBI retains responsibility for its failure to stop the shooter after receiving tips...while claiming “I'm pointing out your acceptance of that kind of deadly negligence.”?

The above is a nonsensical conversation.

glennn wrote:
you have trouble assessing the seriousness of the FBI ignoring everybody's nagging and just letting everything just play out.

Again…what drugs are you on that you continually ignore my now FIVE previous comments of:

vikorr wrote:
1. PART C: Before an action can happen (like in this case), people sometimes have a chance to stop it from happening. The FBI is one of a number of people/entities responsible for not enacting PART C

2. As I said, they failed in their responsibility to prevent the shooting

3. Once again - I said they failed at their responsibility to prevent the shooting

4. how do you miss me stating 3 times that the FBI failed at their responsibility to stop the shooting

5. the FBI retains responsibility for not stopping it after receiving clear tips

I'm presuming you just want to be obtuse.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:36 pm
@vikorr,
What should their punishment be?
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:40 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:
....We've had 604 mass shootings in 2021 in the US....

I won't ask you to cite your source, but I will ask you for the stats on the people who saved themselves or others with guns during the same period.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:46 pm
@Glennn,
You are now going onto a separate conversation. Ours has been:

1. A conversation on Blame vs Responsibilities

.......Which you haven't resolved yet. Come to a conclusion and then we can talk about the next conversation, which is first:

2. Criminal culpability;

......and then

3. Punishments

I don't care for obtuse conversations. Resolve the first - otherwise you have shown that you will become very confused.

Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:49 pm
@vikorr,
You seem quite reluctant to offer an opinion as to what should happen to people who really screw up like that. Why is that?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:53 pm
@Glennn,
ROFL. Nice try. Resolve the first conversation first Mr Obtuse conversations.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 08:56 pm
@vikorr,
You make this so difficult. Just tell me what you think should happen to people who mess up so bad that a bunch of kids get killed. You put me in mind of someone who wants to look the other way.

Why are you afraid to just give your opinion about this. You got an uncle in the FBI or something?

Yeah, you can take the 5th. That's your right.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2023 11:12 pm
@Glennn,
How long have they been monitoring children?
0 Replies
 
 

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