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Schools continue to take rights from parents.

 
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 02:22 pm
I agree Freeduck. Children that age don't need any curriculum teaching them about sexuality. They need to be learning to read, write and do 'rithmetic. That should be the priority for any elementary school, not sex.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 02:31 pm
What about social studies CoastalRat?

Public school is supposed to produce well-informed citizens who have what it takes live productive lives in modern society.

Some children have same-sex homosexual parents. Other children have peers who have same-sex homosexual parents.

This is part of our society and kids should be exposed to it. Schools should cover this the same way they cover race, religion, civics economics and any other part of our society.

I would also repeat that learning that kids have a mommy and a daddy is not teaching about sex. Likewise learning that some kids have two mommies or two daddies isn't teachning about sex either. It is just teaching about real aspects of our culture.

Being an educated citizen is a lot more than learning how to add.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 02:38 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
No, I'm for taking all that money that we spend on testing the pants off of our kids...

I disagree: I think pantsless kids are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 02:44 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
This is part of our society and kids should be exposed to it. Schools should cover this the same way they cover race, religion, civics economics and any other part of our society.


I agree, but we don't teach those other things in kindergarten either. But in general, I do think it's apropriate as part of a social studies curriculum.

Quote:
I would also repeat that learning that kids have a mommy and a daddy is not teaching about sex. Likewise learning that some kids have two mommies or two daddies isn't teachning about sex either. It is just teaching about real aspects of our culture.


I agree here too. My problem with what we are talking about is that somehow the intent gets lost in the curriculum. For instance, the anti-drug programs and anti-bully programs my neice has had to sit through actually take 15 minutes out of her already short (45 minutes) math class. What does she think of these programs? That they're BS brainwashing and that the people teaching them don't have a freaking clue. She does the worksheets and tells them what they want to hear and then blows it right out of her ass.

Quote:
Being an educated citizen is a lot more than learning how to add.


I concur. It would be nice if we could figure out a way to teach these things in a less artificial way.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 02:45 pm
Laughing joe, you're killing me.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 04:14 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Our children are among the most ignorant in the free world and although I have no problem with them learning tolerance and understanding that there are diverse beliefs and lifestyles, I'd like to see them learn how to read, write, speak grammatically correct english and be able to identify the f**king vice president from a photograph before we teach them about homosexuality. It's a priority issue.

The ignorance our children display is abominable and our own fault.

I try to make sure my cubs aren't so ignorant, but it's an uphill battle.


Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but I still agree with you.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 04:18 pm
No I'm not being sarcastic.

I agree with kids learning about diversity in social and sexual life, AFTER they learn the basics AND at an older age.
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Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 04:08 pm
I'm being a lazy a$$ and not going back and reading all the new posts so this might already have been discussed: most of the social lessons for early elementary students (k, 1st, and to some degree 2nd) are usually mixed in with the basic curriculum. For example, rather than using the traditional readers like the adventures of "Dick and Jane" where everyone is white and comes from traditional two-parent families, schools use readers that meet the same objective but provide a more accurate picture of society. Either way, the kids are learning to read; the difference is that now they're learning to read and getting a relatively accurate view of society whereas before they learned to read and developed ethnocentrism and misconceptions about society.

And all this talk about schools "teaching sexuality" to youngsters--I'm having a flashback to the South Park episode I saw last night: Mr. Garrison quizzing the kindergartners on the different sexual positions they'd studied. Teaching kids that some children have two daddies or two mommies (or two daddies and a mommy, two mommies and a daddy, a mommy who used to be a daddy, or whatever) is NOT teaching sexuality; it's teaching social reality that they will likely encounter at some point in the near future.

I'll leave you with one final thought: "Red rocket, Sparky! Red rocket!" :wink:
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 04:26 pm
Mills75 wrote:
I'm being a lazy a$$ and not going back and reading all the new posts so this might already have been discussed: most of the social lessons for early elementary students (k, 1st, and to some degree 2nd) are usually mixed in with the basic curriculum. For example, rather than using the traditional readers like the adventures of "Dick and Jane" where everyone is white and comes from traditional two-parent families, schools use readers that meet the same objective but provide a more accurate picture of society. Either way, the kids are learning to read; the difference is that now they're learning to read and getting a relatively accurate view of society whereas before they learned to read and developed ethnocentrism and misconceptions about society.

And all this talk about schools "teaching sexuality" to youngsters--I'm having a flashback to the South Park episode I saw last night: Mr. Garrison quizzing the kindergartners on the different sexual positions they'd studied. Teaching kids that some children have two daddies or two mommies (or two daddies and a mommy, two mommies and a daddy, a mommy who used to be a daddy, or whatever) is NOT teaching sexuality; it's teaching social reality that they will likely encounter at some point in the near future.

I'll leave you with one final thought: "Red rocket, Sparky! Red rocket!" :wink:


I didn't know it was the responsibility of the school to teach students about families? I thought that was the job of the parents to teach about families. Since when did the schools become the instructors of social engineering?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 04:26 pm
I say, put the little perishers to work . . . why should corporate America have to go overseas to look for sweatshops. We can build 'em here, and none of this messy education business for peasants who don't need it anyway.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 04:27 pm
Setanta wrote:
I say, put the little perishers to work . . . why should corporate America have to go overseas to look for sweatshops. We can build 'em here, and none of this messy education business for peasants who don't need it anyway.


What are you talking about?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 04:28 pm
What business is that or yours?
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 05:58 pm
Setanta wrote:
What business is that or yours?


You posted it in the forum. If you didn't want anyone to know you should have used PM.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:00 pm
Why do you think i didn't want anybody to know? I take it as a given that those with ordinary reading comprehension can understand irony and satire. Those who are obliged to ask for an explanation have no right to know. By the way, you misspelled welfare.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:02 pm
Setanta wrote:
Why do you think i didn't want anybody to know? I take it as a given that those with ordinary reading comprehension can understand irony and satire. Those who are obliged to ask for an explanation have no right to know. By the way, you misspelled welfare.


I haven't used the word welfare. Once again what are you talking about?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:03 pm
It appears in every post you make, and it is misspelled.
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Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:31 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I didn't know it was the responsibility of the school to teach students about families?

Well, now you do.

Quote:
I thought that was the job of the parents to teach about families.

Have families become taboo, too? Will little Johnny stop trying to sneak a peak at the old man's Playboy in favor of Mom's Family Circle? Preparing students for the world is certainly among the many chores with which public education is charged. Educating students about family diversity only helps them understand what they're apt to experience at some point during a visit to little Susie's or little Jimmy's house. This is common sense. Or perhaps we should prevent schools from touching on common sense (I'll bet some people out there really wish schools would stop with that nonsense about the Earth being round).

Quote:
Since when did the schools become the instructors of social engineering?

Social engineering? No, no--we save that for college (for those marketing and management classes business folk take on the way towards earning that MBA). Exposing children to family diversity is no more social engineering than is exposing them to the fact that some people have different skin color, hair texture, or eye shape. That some children come from families with homosexual parents is a social reality being addressed by schools, not created by them.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:54 pm
<applause>

(For Mills - on both his posts so far.)
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Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 07:46 pm
boomerang wrote:
<applause>

(For Mills - on both his posts so far.)

Thank you, you're too kind. I'll be here all week. Try the veal. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 08:32 pm
Quote:
Have families become taboo, too? Will little Johnny stop trying to sneak a peak at the old man's Playboy in favor of Mom's Family Circle?


What happens at home is the business of the parents. It isn't the job of the school to teach about home life for people.

Quote:
Preparing students for the world is certainly among the many chores with which public education is charged.


Since when? I didn't give the school permission to prepare my child for the world. I see that as my job. They need to make sure he knows how to read which I help with. They need to teach him how to do math, which I help with. They need to teach him history and writing and other such educational subjects. The rest should be left to his mother and I not the schools. When the schools provide clothes shoes and a bed to sleep in then they can teach him how to survive in the real world. Until then stick to the basics.

Quote:
Educating students about family diversity only helps them understand what they're apt to experience at some point during a visit to little Susie's or little Jimmy's house.


Once again if he see's something like that at someone else's house then he should come home and ask his PARENTS about it, not his teacher when he shows up at school the next day.

Quote:
This is common sense. Or perhaps we should prevent schools from touching on common sense (I'll bet some people out there really wish schools would stop with that nonsense about the Earth being round).


Now you're being silly. Science is far different from "common sense". Do they get graded on common sense? Once again I thought that was part of the duties of parents to teach such things. Are they going to spank my child as well? I mean from what you are saying that is the only thing left for parents now a days.

Quote:
Exposing children to family diversity is no more social engineering than is exposing them to the fact that some people have different skin color, hair texture, or eye shape.


Don't you think diversity is a little bit over the heads of 6 year olds? Everything you talk about is something that can be seen and doesn't have to be talked about. Children don't know any better unless told by their parents. Have you ever seen little kids play together that has never met? They could careless what someone looks like or who they are. Kids will play together even if they speak different languages. I have a deaf child and when he goes to my older sons school and plays with the other kids they don't know he's deaf. They don't need to know because playing has no language.

Quote:
That some children come from families with homosexual parents is a social reality being addressed by schools, not created by them.


Once again it isn't the business of the school to talk about family make up. They complain about not having the money and time to teach the mandatory stuff then waste time on things that are the domain of the parents. No wonder they are whining. It takes time away from the social engineering classes to teach about reading.
0 Replies
 
 

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