Breathe, nice post! I'm gonna break it up into paragraphs if that's okay with you.
Quote:Did we convict souldiers just a little while ago for degrading POW's? Didnt they look into the accusations that they had been treated in physically harmful ways? If Bush is so for torture why didnt he cover that episode up?
In many ways, what has been done is the equivalent of sticking a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.
During the recent trials over abuses in AGhraib most, if not all, of the soldiers claimed they were following orders from farther up the line. Yet none, not ONE, of the people farther up the line has been prosecuted. One cannot rely upon the Army to self-police in instances such as this, as there are far too many reasons for a coverup by the guys up top and they have far too much influence.
We have recently learned that the abuses performed in AGhraib were in large part derived from earlier work done by Abusers and Torturers in Guantanamo bay. Specifically the 'tiger team' deployed by General Miller, head of Detention at Guantanamo bay.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/29/international/middleeast/29ABUS.html?ex=1401163200&en=d3608ff1475dc4da&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND
The abuses at AG didn't begin until DIRECTLY AFTER the 'tiger team' showed up.
I would contend that the issue of abuses and torture has not been adequately explored. I just don't know what happened to the concept of
responsibility! When troops are serving under you, you are responsible for their conduct. There is little doubt that the actions of torture, murder, and abuse were either ordered or condoned by higher leadership, none of whom has been punished. Until this happens, you can't say that Bush has investigated this nearly enough; it would be like arresting a few gang members, leaving the leaders at large, and claiming that the gang problem is over.
Quote:I dont think Bush is perfect, but I do think he's compitent enough to do a thurough investigation on these accusations.
You are making the mistake of believing that Bush has anything to do with these decisions. He doesn't, other than to rubber-stamp them at the end. Bush is merely the likeable, country-boy face on a group of very shady characters; Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Bolton, Feith. Bad people. Bush is just the pretty-boy in the front. So, in this case, his competency has nothing to do with the issue.
Quote:I understand that even the Britians are aware of the possiblity that the US has been using torture as a means of gaining intellegence, and also needlessly to make the lives of inmates hell, they also were taken back by the possibility that these things have been and are occuring still.
Yup. They aren't very happy about it. And there is ample evidence that these things still occur.
Quote:Given all that, i would have to assume that all the information we have on this topic is what little has been assumed by people in high places, or by bits and pieces that have leaked out. If i was in the presidents place i would want to look into this quietly before making it public too, incase the accusations were false, who'd want to risk the already stained reputaion of our military?
Well, the pres and his cabinet only have a limited right to 'look into things quietly.' At the end of the day, they are
our employees, after all! They have to answer to the people of the US, who have a right to know the truth about what is being done in their name.
It took 1 1/2 years (and a Sy Hersh article) for us to find out about the abuses going on in AG. If not for the article, we might STILL not know. What else don't we know about?
Quote:Bush might not be bright, but he does seem to be a just human being, i find it hard to believe that he encourages or even knowingly permits unnessary torture. And besides that, i dont remember him ever being caught in a blatant lie, unlike some of our former leaders.
Once again, don't confuse Bush's public faces with the things that happen behind the scenes. They have little to do with each other. Bush approved and signed the orders to implement the procedures which have lead to torture and abuse; his hands are as dirty as yours and mine on this issue, and make no mistake, you and I are as responsible for these abuses and tortures as anyone else; because we not only installed those into office who make this happen, we don't do anything about it once we find out.
Cheers!
Cycloptichorn
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