1
   

It's Hard Work Screwing Up The Greatest Country In The World

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 05:56 am
Frank, I didn't realize that I had taken your rattle. If I give it back, will you stop crying?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 07:01 am
McGentrix wrote:
You know what? I agree. That does look rather damning.

But, let me run this by you.

He was honest. He did intend present the resolution when he said what he did. Then, upon advice from his cabinet and advisors decided not to present it before the UN due to circumstances he had not considered or conditions that had changed. Thereby leading Bush to change his mind. Not really a lie at all.


I'm confused now on which is worse... The lying about calling for a vote, or that, as McG acknowledges, Bush isn't smart enough to consider circumstances and conditions before making such a statement.

McG seems to think Bush made this statement on his own without advice and consent, and then got called into Principal Cheneys office afterwards.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 07:17 am
And you, or anyone else here has never said you were going to do something and ended up not doing it?

Please. You are a liar if you say you haven't.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 07:24 am
McGentrix
This is a commitment by the president of the US not a little white lie you told your mother.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 07:34 am
Really AU? I hadn't considered that.

Wow! That changes everything! I had no idea the president couldn't change his mind, or change course after saying something!

Thanks for clearing that up, all of you.

Have you stopped to think for a moment that the greatest "gotcha" you have been able to come up with is this? Hardly even mentionable compared to Clinton....
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 07:38 am
McGentrix wrote:
Really AU? I hadn't considered that.

Wow! That changes everything! I had no idea the president couldn't change his mind, or change course after saying something!

Thanks for clearing that up, all of you.

Have you stopped to think for a moment that the greatest "gotcha" you have been able to come up with is this? Hardly even mentionable compared to Clinton....


Given that it is possible the president changed his mind after saying it...(incompetency?) why did he not followup with a correction rather than just carry on as if he never said it?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:18 am
McGentrix wrote:
He was honest. He did intend present the resolution when he said what he did. Then, upon advice from his cabinet and advisors decided not to present it before the UN due to circumstances he had not considered or conditions that had changed. Thereby leading Bush to change his mind. Not really a lie at all.

In other words, either he lied or else he told the truth without first having obtained permission from his advisors. I'd have to agree with squinney here: I don't know which is worse.

If he was telling the truth on March 6, and he really did intend to submit the resolution to the UNSC regardless of the predicted outcome, then his failure to submit the resolution was a breach of a promise to the American people (I won't mention that it was also a breach of domestic and international law). Again, I'm not sure which is worse, lying or breaking a promise. In any event, as Intrepid notes, Bush, at the very least, owed the nation an explanation for his failure to do what he said he would do.
0 Replies
 
MaSta T-IcE
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:38 am
I don't care how vacations the president takes.. He's still one of the worst presidents the country has had.
0 Replies
 
MaSta T-IcE
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:39 am
He is sinking our country to the terrors of hell. Now china wants to nuke us..
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:44 am
McG wrote
Quote:
Really AU? I hadn't considered that.


I understand it must be difficult to consider anything in your condition. Did you ever consider seeking medical help? Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:12 am
joefromchicago wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
He was honest. He did intend present the resolution when he said what he did. Then, upon advice from his cabinet and advisors decided not to present it before the UN due to circumstances he had not considered or conditions that had changed. Thereby leading Bush to change his mind. Not really a lie at all.

In other words, either he lied or else he told the truth without first having obtained permission from his advisors. I'd have to agree with squinney here: I don't know which is worse.

If he was telling the truth on March 6, and he really did intend to submit the resolution to the UNSC regardless of the predicted outcome, then his failure to submit the resolution was a breach of a promise to the American people (I won't mention that it was also a breach of domestic and international law). Again, I'm not sure which is worse, lying or breaking a promise. In any event, as Intrepid notes, Bush, at the very least, owed the nation an explanation for his failure to do what he said he would do.


I do not believe it to be either of the choices you have given. You need to broaden your scope so as to allow for other possibilities.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:18 am
McGentrix you genius.... you've trapped my wife with your brilliant " or you're a liar" strategy. You really painted her into a corner..... what a masterbater....oops I meant master debater...excuse me.... typo........ she's crying right now...... and I must admit I'm in awe of your skills Shocked ..... I will never attempt to cross your path again, you are too strong. Sad
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:29 am
Oh, darn. Vacation is over. Tri-polar bear is back.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:37 am
McGentrix wrote:
Oh, darn. Vacation is over. Tri-polar bear is back.


now now, take a light hearted joke and don't get upset. Here, I'll give you back your rattle. Laughing
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:41 am
That's Franks. I was just holding onto it until he got back. You can probably give back to him as well as I can.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:46 am
No, I'm pretty sure this one is yours. It's pink. Frank's was blue.
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:02 am
The Bush administration knew or should have known that their resolution didn't stand a chance.

While Bush's statement might have been on March 6th, one has to in fact go back in time. When Powell went to the UN in February of the same year, his presentation didn't exactly fare well. Most observers weren't impressed. And he was rebuffed time and time again by people such as Hans Blix. The later report of Blix wasn't much help to Powell, criticizing openly the Powell facts.

Blix rebutted some of the arguments proposed by Mr. Powell. Mr. Blix questioned the interpretations of the satellite images put forward by Powell, and stated that alternate interpretations of the satellite images were in fact credible. He also stated that the Iraqis have in fact never received early warning of the inspectors visiting any sites (an allegation made by Mr. Powell during his presentation.) International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohammed ElBaradei also said that he didn't believe the Iraqis had a nuclear weapons program, in disagreement with Mr. Powell.

Blix further reported on March 7th to the SC and his report wasn't supportive. Blix's report to the Council did not contain any evidence to support US and British claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or the programs to develop such weapons. IAEA director-general Mohamed ElBaradei also reported on the same day to the Council and said there were no signs that Iraq has reconstituted its nuclear weapons program. Bush is presumed through intelligence reports to have had advance notice of these reports which basically were his context for his failed promise of March 6th.

There is no evidence that Iraq has mobile biological weapons factories, as was recently alleged by Colin Powell in his February 5 presentation to the UN. "Several inspections have taken place ... in relation to mobile production facilities," Blix said. "No evidence of proscribed activities has so far been found." He further explained that his inspectors had examined numerous mobile facilities and large containers with seed processing equipment.

(http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/07/sprj.irq.un.transcript.blix/index.html; also : http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/07/sprj.irq.main/index.html)

Also we know that the Bush administration was closely monitoring the activities of several member states of the SC, leaving anyone to believe that Bush knew without a doubt that support for any resolution he might submit wouldn't be.

Quote:
Revealed: US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war

Excepts:

The United States is conducting a secret 'dirty tricks' campaign against UN Security Council delegations in New York as part of its battle to win votes in favour of war against Iraq.

Details of the aggressive surveillance operation, which involves interception of the home and office telephones and the emails of UN delegates in New York, are revealed in a document leaked to The Observer.

The disclosures were made in a memorandum written by a top official at the National Security Agency - the US body which intercepts communications around the world - and circulated to both senior agents in his organisation and to a friendly foreign intelligence agency asking for its input.

The memo describes orders to staff at the agency, whose work is clouded in secrecy, to step up its surveillance operations 'particularly directed at... UN Security Council Members (minus US and GBR, of course)' to provide up-to-the-minute intelligence for Bush officials on the voting intentions of UN members regarding the issue of Iraq.

The leaked memorandum makes clear that the target of the heightened surveillance efforts are the delegations from Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Mexico, Guinea and Pakistan at the UN headquarters in New York - the so-called 'Middle Six' delegations whose votes are being fought over by the pro-war party, led by the US and Britain, and the party arguing for more time for UN inspections, led by France, China and Russia.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html


So Bush and his pundits can argue whatever, Bush and his administration rushed to war on a variety of pretexts (including the scorching Iraq summer heat) and never intended to follow through on their resolution pledge.

Thus instead of the wide support the first Gulf War garnered under Bush senior, including most of the actual costs being borne by the coalition excluding America's taxpayers, we basically went alone with the Brits and a coalition of the coerced.

The price of the war has been horrendous not only in lives and in billion of dollars. The war has pitted America against much of the world. It's credibility is quite shaken amongst many know allied countries. There was no WMDs. And when the war of Iraq is linked to that of the war on terror, as the recent London incidents show, that war served as a recruiting catalysis for Islamist extremists.

But more, it has basically exposed our political sham: Bush with all his lies and misrepresentations has disenfranchised many who doubt now anything coming from Washington and feel that democracy is only but a sham in the hands of political apparatchiks far more intent on politics than the general welfare of the country. That spells the demise of the American empire, maybe the only true silver lining and legacy of the Bush (Texas Soufflé) presidency.
0 Replies
 
pngirouard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:05 am
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:16 am
McGentrix wrote:
I do not believe it to be either of the choices you have given. You need to broaden your scope so as to allow for other possibilities.

I don't understand. Either he lied or he broke his promise. What's the third option? That it was all some elaborate prank?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:26 am
joefromchicago wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
I do not believe it to be either of the choices you have given. You need to broaden your scope so as to allow for other possibilities.

I don't understand. Either he lied or he broke his promise. What's the third option? That it was all some elaborate prank?


define lie and promise though. Not themoral/what grandma taught me definition, but the current neocon/bushco/legal definition.

Prank I got. That's what was played on us in 2000 in Florida and 2004 in Ohio.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 12/27/2024 at 09:24:49