ABORTION.......

hephzibah wrote:

Hmm that's interesting. Years ago I used to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center and I did a lot of research while I was there. Until now I had never seen anything that said the heart was beating that soon. It's amazing.

Having thought of this issue since yesterday I have come to the conclusion that while people bash the bible and say over and over it contradicts itself, it is abundantly clear that the law contradicts itself because it says we cannot murder a human or we will go to jail, then bends the rules when it comes to a living human being with a heart beat and possibly even brain waves, inside of a womans womb.

You have a fascinating background when it comes to this topic, Hephzibah.

Did your CPC have an ultrasound machine? What % of the young ladies who were able to actually see their baby on the ultrasound , and therefore have some concept of the actual medical status of the unborn, decided afterward not to abort?

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No we didn't have an ultra sound machine unfortunately. It was a small little office that people could come to when they didn't know where to go. There were counselors on hand to speak with them and discuss how they were feeling and why. There was a room full of donations of things like cloths, toys, strollers, etc... that anyone who decided to keep their baby could have.

It was a very nice atmosphere, not judgemental or critical. Just people who sincerely wanted to help others who were struggling. They didn't condemn or judge the girls that came in no matter what they decided to do. The information they had on pregnancy and development was astounding. I was a receptionist, taking phone calls and greeting people. But I would stay after for awhile and watch video's or read about stuff. I cried a lot when I starting finding out some of the facts and some of the things the law was saying were ok.

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Just a little food for thought here.

When I was in my mid twenties I had a heart to heart with my mom one day about my childhood and how things were for me growing up. She admitted to me that when she was pregnant with me she had thought several times of having an abortion because of the way things were at that time in her life. My dad was about to leave her. She already had to kids. She had no idea how she was going to make it on her own. She changed her mind at some point. She didn't say why. I'm glad she did though. If she hadn't I wouldn't be here right now.

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You were one of the lucky ones

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Intrepid wrote:

Frank,
That has to be one of your most desperate and silly posts to date.

Really!

I thought I capture the reality of the situation rather well.

Oh well...some people you just cannot please.

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Intrepid wrote:

You were one of the lucky ones

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hephzibah wrote:

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You are terrified of the god. This horseshyt about the god loving you...or me...is such a crock of azz kissing that it should provoke peals of laughter in anyone with a brain...and enough sense not to be superstitious or in dread of silly boogeymen

Hi Frank. Nice to meet you finally.

Hi, Hephzibah. Good to meet you, too.

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I've heard a lot about you. You are quite the icon at A2K. It seems you are very well respected and spoken very highly of by some.

Some of the folks here in this thread see things differently. But...to each his/her own.

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I just have a couple of things I would like to point out from what you said.

Who's booty exactly are we smoochin on? Just curious.

Well...the one's who think that the god Jesus worshipped...is actually a god...are constantly sucking up and kissing that god's booty.

If you would like to discuss this, though, we probably ought to start another thread so as not to derail this one. (!)

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As far as the fear thing goes, well, you know everyone experiences fear on some level.

My guess is that is so. I certainly do from time to time.

I just try to stay away from fearing the unknown...or boogeymen.

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It's a part of life. Sometimes it's not a choice, sometimes it is.

Indeed so.

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Is all fear superstitious?

I doubt it...but I suspect almost all religion is.

Once again, I would love to discuss this with you. It is one of my favorite subjects. Would you like to start a new thread....or should I?

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Chumly wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
You were one of the lucky ones

Actually...things go even deeper than that, Chumly.

If these good folks are correct that the "souls" of innocent humans go to heaven and spend eternity with their god in bliss and contentment...doesn't it seem that the ones "slaughtered" while still innocent...the ones who get a free pass to an eternity of bliss...at the cost of not getting a few years in this vale of tears...

...are the lucky ones??????

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Many natural abortions and other unavoidable childbearing natal deaths happen so early on that the woman does not even know she was pregnant.

Is it part of god's plan to kill the unborn?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually...things go even deeper than that, Chumly.

If these good folks are correct that the "souls" of innocent humans go to heaven and spend eternity with their god in bliss and contentment...doesn't it seem that the ones "slaughtered" while still innocent...the ones who get a free pass to an eternity of bliss...at the cost of not getting a few years in this vale of tears...

...are the lucky ones??????

Only the good die young taken to the extreme, hope they like afros and polyester!

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Nice try at rationalizing this away Frank. Oh yeah, they will go to heaven anyway so what the he!!? Rolling Eyes

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Chumly wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
You were one of the lucky ones

The Christian god's name is not Shirley. It is God.

Your reasoning is beyond reason. Do you think that God places so little value on human life?

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Frank and Chumly,
So you two think that this is all just a joke. Your disregard for human life makes one want to vomit. You have used those words before, Frank, and they are as hollow now as they were the last time yoiu wrote them and the time before that.

You may have hephzibah fooled, but many of us have seen too many of your posts.

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Ditto!

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Frank Apisa wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
Quote:
You are terrified of the god. This horseshyt about the god loving you...or me...is such a crock of azz kissing that it should provoke peals of laughter in anyone with a brain...and enough sense not to be superstitious or in dread of silly boogeymen

Hi Frank. Nice to meet you finally.

Hi, Hephzibah. Good to meet you, too.

Quote:
I've heard a lot about you. You are quite the icon at A2K. It seems you are very well respected and spoken very highly of by some.

Some of the folks here in this thread see things differently. But...to each his/her own.

Quote:
I just have a couple of things I would like to point out from what you said.

Who's booty exactly are we smoochin on? Just curious.

Well...the one's who think that the god Jesus worshipped...is actually a god...are constantly sucking up and kissing that god's booty.

If you would like to discuss this, though, we probably ought to start another thread so as not to derail this one. (!)

Quote:
As far as the fear thing goes, well, you know everyone experiences fear on some level.

My guess is that is so. I certainly do from time to time.

I just try to stay away from fearing the unknown...or boogeymen.

Quote:

It's a part of life. Sometimes it's not a choice, sometimes it is.

Indeed so.

Quote:
Is all fear superstitious?

I doubt it...but I suspect almost all religion is.

Once again, I would love to discuss this with you. It is one of my favorite subjects. Would you like to start a new thread....or should I?

Edit:
I will start one in the morning. I'm at work and can't talk much until I get home. I am interested in discussing this further. Sorry about almost sidetracking your thread. LOL I was just thinking about the things you said and that's what popped into my head. Talk to you later.

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RL,

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First you must prove that the unborn has no rights.

No, I really don't.
Rights are arbitrary, I was suggesting a distinction based on reason. As there are no 'inherent' rights, humans must set the standard.

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The unborn has a right to live. Whether this right is recognized and protected by civil authority or not does not change the existence of his right.

Again, 'rights' are not inherent, but arbitrarily given and taken by those with the power to do so.

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The Founders described rights as coming from God and protected or upheld by civil authority. This is the basis of our law. The right to life is not the creation of human authority.

As there is no demonstrable god, anything it may/may not have given is irrelevant.

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Your comparison of the unborn to a parasite falls apart completely when you are asked to defend it.

I must have missed that part.

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That is because your concept of who is independent enough to merit a right, and the idea that the Founders used in forming our country are completely incompatible.

Newsflash: The past governments of individual nations do not a universal standard make.

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Since then, we must choose between your concept of rights and that of the Founders, I think we will stick with the Founders and leave your concept of rights to the landfill.

And what precisely, have these 'founders' you have deified to say on the subject of abortion anyway? Does this direction you are going eventually arrive at a point?

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Intrepid wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
You were one of the lucky ones

The Christian god's name is not Shirley. It is God.

Your reasoning is beyond reason. Do you think that God places so little value on human life?

The god of the Bible!!!!!

The god Jesus worshipped!!!

You think that god values human life.

What the hell have you been reading? Certainly not the Bible.

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Intrepid wrote:

Frank and Chumly,
So you two think that this is all just a joke. Your disregard for human life makes one want to vomit. You have used those words before, Frank, and they are as hollow now as they were the last time yoiu wrote them and the time before that.

You may have hephzibah fooled, but many of us have seen too many of your posts.

Oh, stop with the phony indignation. It makes me want to vomit.

I have not spoken any hollow words, Intrepid...although I have often addressed my words to hollow heads. Perhaps that is what is confusing you.

Twisted Evil

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hephzibah wrote:

Edit:
I will start one in the morning. I'm at work and can't talk much until I get home. I am interested in discussing this further. Sorry about almost sidetracking your thread. LOL I was just thinking about the things you said and that's what popped into my head. Talk to you later.

I look forward to it.

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Doktor S wrote:

Rights are arbitrary, I was suggesting a distinction based on reason

No, you are suggesting a distinction based on merit, based on earning it.

Your concept of rights has some folks 'worthy' and others not.

The American concept of rights, including the right to life cannot be based on your standard. It is arbitrary, as you admit.

Americans have stood for rights, not based on the whim of government but on the worth of the individual. We have fought (sometimes each other) , bled and died for rights based on a very different concept than what you espouse.

We'll stick with the Founders idea of rights, but there are plenty of totalitarian states around the world where your ideas would fit right in. Why don't you visit some of them?

Your view is not based on reason, but on the arbitrary use of power to kill or save alive based on your own personal whim. You'll be very popular in many countries of the world. Just not here.

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