ABORTION.......

Questioner Wrote:

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Providing that such an entity exists at all, and you're not just placing your trust in some ficticious entity that you've abscribed superhuman characteristicts too in an effort to explain why he allows such things to happen.

And that Questioner, is where the faith comes in. Love the Santa hat!

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

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If you think it disgusting that a fetus should be arborted just because it might grow up evil, isn't it even more disgusting for an omnipotent, omniscient God to have let a baby be created, knowing that it would become evil, and then killing it?

It is different, God has the ability to judge...do you?
Not inconsistant at all. I would trust god's impartial judgement over a biased human's any day.

The human's judgement wouldn't be biased. It would be based on what evidence is available. The only difference is that God has more evidence to allow him to make his own judgement.

Thing is, what about that flood? He could have averted it, you know. He is omnipotent and omniscient and he is caring, yet he killed mothers who were yet to give birth in that flood and thus killed the unborn baby or the fetus.

What's more, he knew they were going to be evil and allowed them to be evil. He set it up such that they were evil to begin with and didn't have a chance in Hell of living a decent life. Is that not cruel?

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Wolf,

We were all given a free will. WE decide if we are going to be evil or not. God does not decide that for us. Sure, God could have made us all like little robots that do exactly what He wants and nothing else. Would you like that? I don't think I would.

He gave Adam and Eve a choice. Live in paradise forever and just don't eat that fruit. Adam and Eve made the choice to disobey God. So, now, we should blame God because He gave us a free will?

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What's more, he knew they were going to be evil and allowed them to be evil. He set it up such that they were evil to begin with and didn't have a chance in Hell of living a decent life. Is that not cruel?

UHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! How many times do you want us to explain the whole FREE CHOICE thing?!

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

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What's more, he knew they were going to be evil and allowed them to be evil. He set it up such that they were evil to begin with and didn't have a chance in Hell of living a decent life. Is that not cruel?

UHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! How many times do you want us to explain the whole FREE CHOICE thing?!

Yes, but if there was a choice, then God's decision to wipe out all those people in Noah's flood would have been no more different from mine.

Presumably, God must have killed thousands of unborn babies in Noah's Flood. Your logic to justify his actions was that well, they didn't have a choice to become good or evil. They were destined to become evil. So, wasn't it cruel for God to have brought them about in the first place? They were made, destined to be evil, destined to go to Hell and had no chance to get into Heaven. Is that not cruel?

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

thunder_runner32 wrote:
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What's more, he knew they were going to be evil and allowed them to be evil. He set it up such that they were evil to begin with and didn't have a chance in Hell of living a decent life. Is that not cruel?

UHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! How many times do you want us to explain the whole FREE CHOICE thing?!

Yes, but if there was a choice, then God's decision to wipe out all those people in Noah's flood would have been no more different from mine.

Presumably, God must have killed thousands of unborn babies in Noah's Flood. Your logic to justify his actions was that well, they didn't have a choice to become good or evil. They were destined to become evil. So, wasn't it cruel for God to have brought them about in the first place? They were made, destined to be evil, destined to go to Hell and had no chance to get into Heaven. Is that not cruel?

But wouldn't you say, Wolf, that most of those who use Scripture as you are doing here, namely to show how evil the Christian God is, are the same ones who also use Scripture to show how bogus the Scriptures are? Have you missed the argument that Jesus came to reveal God as He is, not as he was perceived in Old Testament times? And have you missed all the arguments in favor of symbolism and metaphor that may or may not be applied to the Flood, etc. depending on the particular religious training a person has had?

And what do you think is the motive of those who a) try to discredit the Scriptures when discussing same with believers? and b) try to use those same scriptures to justify abortion?

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Foxfyre,

I am so glad you asked that two part question! I would definitely like to know the answer to that myself. Thank you!

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

real life wrote:
Hi Wolf,

I am amazed that you cannot see the disgusting nature of your argument.

1. If a child coming into the world 'may' not be expected or even particularly wanted, isn't it better to end his chance at life? NO

That question doesn't exactly have such a clear cut answer, which is why I'm very wary of replying to these posts. Everyone here makes it out to be such a black and white topic, but it isn't. Very few topics are black and white and this one definitely isn't one of them.............

Hi Wolf,

The answer to this question is clearly black and white.

Ending SOMEONE ELSE'S life based on how miserable WE think he will be if allowed to live is about the most preposterous thing that could be proposed to defend abortion (or anything else).

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The topic may not be black and white, but the question and real life's answer are.

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Real Life Wrote:

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Ending SOMEONE ELSE'S life based on how miserable WE think he will be if allowed to live is about the most preposterous thing that could be proposed to defend abortion (or anything else).

I agree with Real Life on this. To me, deciding if someone's life would be worth living or not sounds an awful lot like holding oneself out to be on the level with God.

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If nothing else has been accomplished in this thread, it is obvious, to me anyway, that none of these issues can be neatly packaged with one-size-fits-all conclusions.

But right is right and wrong is wrong. And if there was more effort to identify what is right and what is wrong, we would probably come closer to getting it right.

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I agree with you there, Foxfyre. The real problem seems to be the differences believed in who sets the standards for what is right and wrong. Right? :wink:

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Right you are Momma Angel. Too often though, the pro-abortion-rights group does not wish to even discuss issues of right and wrong when it comes to abortion lest they are forced into a position of supporting the unsupportable when it comes down to actual policy. It's easier to dodge those kinds of questions or try to deflect them by demonizing the pro-lifers and/or their beliefs.

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Right you are Foxfyre.

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Actually, I think that can be applied to other controversial issues as well. As long as what is right and wrong cannot (or will not) be clearly accepted by all, there will be problems like these.

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Yes, a half century ago most Americans shared pretty much the same values. That does not mean everybody did what was right, of course, but most of us could agree on what was right and what was wrong. Of course there were problems then too that had to be remedied by legal actions and/or public opinion, but most communities were happier places and shared more common purposes then.

Then in the social upheavals of the 60's and 70's, we developed counter cultures that rejected many of the values of the 'older generation', and we have suffered mightily as a people as a result of that.

I think there are stirrings now that the pendulum may be slowly swinging back to a time of more shared values. I hope that is the case. And when it happens, we will have abortion policies that most of us can accept and live with.

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I think we, as mankind, have just gotten too immune to so many things. Some atrocities are too easily accepted in today's society. Perhaps it is the way some cope and perhaps not.

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That's why I use Newhaus's quote in my signature line. It's one of the scariest things for me in the 21st Century.

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I understand that.

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The abortion cause was lost because it was discredited by fanatics just like a football team loses when it picks the wrong team who think looking good is all it takes.

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