The Clear Vision of Ronald Reagan

Brandon9000 wrote:

kickycan wrote:

Aaaah, horseshit.

I don't suppose you'd care to actually state why it's wrong, or what is wrong about it? One assumes that your argument is indefensible beyond the level of darting in for a little exclamation.

well for one thing, Reagan didn't write it. Someone else did......Reagan was the actor.......alzheimers was already upon him. It feels good to some to think of Reagan as the one, but really he was just working off the foundation of Death Valley Days and Twenty Mule Team Borax.....such as it was........that's one reason, there are others.

The line is a little like a horoscope.....it could apply to almost anything one might wish. Being There............(that's Jerzey Kosinski style)

Brandon9000 wrote:

blatham wrote:

Quote:

Link or reference please.

I am more pleased than you can imagine that you've asked me for the link.

You folks always draw false conclusions with such an air of triumph. My request simply means that your quotation looks like a total crock. It looks like your best attack on the president is to put words in his mouth.

I note also that your refutation of Reagan's quotation didn't involve actually countering anything it contained. If you liberals are in the right, as you believe, then why do you have so much trouble attacking a conservative argument directly. Your little wisecracks in lieu of any on topic argument must certainly be regarded as a forfeit.

oh no! not a forfeit! Heaven forbid and pass the gravy.

Lola wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

blatham wrote:

Quote:

Link or reference please.

I am more pleased than you can imagine that you've asked me for the link.

You folks always draw false conclusions with such an air of triumph. My request simply means that your quotation looks like a total crock. It looks like your best attack on the president is to put words in his mouth.

I note also that your refutation of Reagan's quotation didn't involve actually countering anything it contained. If you liberals are in the right, as you believe, then why do you have so much trouble attacking a conservative argument directly. Your little wisecracks in lieu of any on topic argument must certainly be regarded as a forfeit.

oh no! not a forfeit! Heaven forbid and pass the gravy.

How like a liberal - anything but addressing the logic of an opponent's argument. For God's sake, don't make any on topic arguments.

He was a mediocre actor at best..........admit it Bladimo.........or maybe you dont' know. How old are you anyway? The man had to have a comic book version of the daily CIA report.......anything more complicated was too complex for him. Republican presidents have been puppets since Reagan.........Clinton, bless his heart, was the only one with a real cock anyway.

Ronald Reagan was twice the man Clinton will ever be and will be noted in history along with the other great presidents we have had.

Quote:

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

Ronald Reagan
40th president of US (1911 - 2004)

And by the way, that doesn't just refer to bringing domestic lawsuits, it also refers to employing the military against enemies in wars in which people die.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Quote:

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

Ronald Reagan
40th president of US (1911 - 2004)

And by the way, that doesn't just refer to bringing domestic lawsuits, it also refers to employing the military against enemies in wars in which people die.

Brandon

Really, there is very little in your Reagan quote which is noteworthy or remarkable. Political speeches are constructed with just such elements of generalization and hopeful sentiment or dire warning as you see in that one.

"Freedom is at risk and we need to keep watch for the loss of it." Sure.

"It is a product of our institutions and not our genes." Yes.

"If we lose freedoms, we'd likely tell our kids about it." Yup.

But as an earlier bright post said to you, this is rather like a horoscope or a tea-leaf reading where many agreeable things can be read by many different readers. Or, think of those aphorism signs we sometimes see out on the roadside in front of a diner - "Divided we fall", etc.

For example, you apparently see a justification for warfare (perhaps Iraq) in Reagan's words. But our concept of political 'freedom' relates not just to keeping our sovereignty safe from external attack, but it also relates to what we've come to consider the fundamental right of citizens to be free from the coercion by the powerful or the state - as when feudal lords forced the peasants to fight some battle to increase that lord's territories or power. Thus one can find historical and cultural justification for dissenting a war too, or for refusing to join in it, or even for seeking to bring down a power structure (a government administration) which one perceives is moving in such a direction.

If you wish to study really quality speeches, then turn to Lincoln.

I think his comment contained

here is the key

Brandon9000 wrote:

I think his comment contained

You don't know what it contained more than anyone else who is interpreting what a speechwriter wrote.

That is why I initially asked you if it had been documented what Reagan said it meant.

Your interpretation is simply that - no more, no less. As my interpretation is simply my reading of it.

Putting out your view of what freedom or war or terrorism or X is, without the Reagan speech quote, would probably have made a bit more sense. The Reagan quote simply muddied the water leaving OssoB to make the assessment of "what topic?"

There can be no right or wrong to "what did Reagan mean?" He's dead, and you haven't provided any indication that he discussed its meaning anywhere.

You wanted discussion of your views on something, but it doesn't really seem to have been about Reagan's speech - but your understanding of what freedom means in America today.

"Don't assume American freedom or sovereignty are permanent, because they aren't unless you're willing to defend them."

Brandon, I posted what I thought about the Reagan quote back on the second (?) page.

I'm one of the people who were of the "what topic?" persuasion. I'd post more to it, if I could figure out what you were asking about.

I noticed a similar problem on one of your other threads just a few minutes ago. You're telling people they're picking on the wrong things in your posts. Maybe it's how you present things that is causing mis-reading. Maybe you're presenting things awkwardly on purpose <shrug> I don't think that's what you're doing, but I don't want to presume about it either way.

In my last post, I was trying to suggest to you that you might have better luck with getting responses related to your topic if you presented your topic in a clearer way up front.

How are we to address the underlying topic? What the heck is it?