Vaccination issue: Would I be wrong?

I think some people are looking at this and saying, "if you've not said anything about them not wearing a mask before not then you shouldn't say anything about it at all now." Laws, rules, regulations, mandates change all the time. You can't not follow a rule or law simply because you don't agree with it or because "you've never said anything about this before." I'm trying to keep me and my family safe. If those boys want to take their own lives into their hands the so be it, but not at my health and safety or anyone else's health or safety. They can do what they want out side of my front door. But inside of my front door I'm the president, senator, congressman, governor, mayor, city council, what have you. I'm not trying to be a dictator but just set some rules for my house. And some times you can't always be nice and sweet by holding someone's hand and telling them how things are now going to go. Sometimes you've just gotta rip the bandaid off and say this is how it goes from here on out.

"But if you question that she has an issue with her sons wearing a mask why don't you talk with her to see and discuss how it should best be handled. Clear communication would resolve all of this."

She doesn't have a problem with them wearing a mask. But when the one came in and his mask was under his chin the minute I said anything then she got on the defense. "I wish you would let me handle things." I guess in her mind I can come up with things then she takes it and enforces it how she sees fit. Wearing your mask under your chin is not protection. But in her mind, "he had on a mask."

"And did he comply? If so, then why was the text necessary?"

Because at that time she and I had just mentioned it and discussed it last night. My wife tends to do things outside of my knowledge then expects me to know what she did without me telling her. When I sent out the group text to everyone I wanted EVERYONE to be aware of what was going on in our house, not just a few. But if she told her sons they needed to wear a mask inside out house apparently it didn't take because he walked in this morning without one so I sent out the group text to remind everyone. And again, I'm not saying they can never come by because of their vaccination status, but that they just need to keep on their masks. I do not think I'm asking anything wrong or out of the ordinary.

We have a family member whose wife imposes a bunch of rules on everyone who visits. This is difficult with children and most of my family think that this is odious. It is worse, because we feel that this woman is judging us and our kids. (This happened long before the pandemic).

My brother won't visit this house any more. He got fed up with it, and simply refuses. This has caused a rift in a family relationship. I still visit, but yes, this is a little annoying. My kids (now the youngest is a teen) know the rules... but they make fun of her behind her back.

You are going to have to balance your personal sense of risk, with how much you value these relationships. My advice would be to cut them as much slack as you can. No one wants to be judged.

I don't think being right is ever worth the cost of a meaningful relationship.

"Read the text you sent, and change "vaccination" for "circumcision" or "heterosexual" or any other controversial issue that you would take issue with... how would you react if your kids were treated differently in someone's house because they weren't circumcised or were in a same-sex relationship."

Wait a minute. This is not about anything other than being vaccinated for the corona virus. Being circumcised or being heterosexual or even gay is not a death sentence. You can't spread circumcision or being heterosexual or even gay simply by touch or breathing on someone. Do not throw that into the mix because this is not what it's about. I may not want you in my house because you smoke. I do not want that smell in my house, on my furniture, etc. But that's a rule I set for my house. I'm not saying you can't smoke but if you do do not come to my house.

"I don't think being right is ever worth the cost of a meaningful relationship."

I'm asking them to wear a mask not get a swab shoved up their nose every time they come to our house for a rapid covid test. Just like your brother won't go visit the family member because of her rules then they are within their rights to not come visit us at ours. Do you just allow people to come to your house and throw their feet up on the sofa, go through your fridge, walk into your bedrooms, etc. simply because you don't want to cause a rift between them? We all have rules we must follow. If your job imposes a dress code do you quit your job simply because you want to wear booty shorts or low cut tops? No, you follow the rules or get a box and clean out your desk.

Pay no attention to Max, he just wants to make every thread about him.

I will concede that you right on a small point. There is a very small chance that your sons visiting you will not being vaccinated will end with someone dying from covid. Scientifically speaking (and I accept all the science) that risk is exceeding low, particularly for people in your household that are vaccinated. We can do the math if you want. I just looked up the numbers for Florida (which is what came up in my mind as a bad state, I don't know where you actually live).

For your sons to be a risk to you as a person

1) They have to actually have the virus. If they don't have the virus, they are no risk to you. From the numbers in florida right now, I estimate this risk is about 1 in 2100.

2) They have to transmit the virus to you. I looked up scientific papers, the risk that covid will be transmitted to an unprotected family member is under 15%. That brings the odds to about 1 in 14,000.

3) If you are vaccinated that dramatically reduces the chance you will get the virus. Assuming a 90% effectiveness rate, that brings your risk of catching the virus to 1 in 140,000.

4) Assuming your chance of getting covid is about 1 in 140,000 most cases of covid are minor. Only 1-5% of covid cases are fatal (and that number is even lower if you are vaccinated).

That makes the chance of you dying from your son's behavior is over 1 in 2,000,000.

Your actual personal risk is pretty damn low. Even at the height of the pandemic, heart disease and cancer are killing more Americans than cancer. If you are an older American, heart disease is far more likely to get you than covid.

Hi Izzy! I haven't heard from your son in a while. How is he doing?

Although I agree with some of this - I think this situation is a little bit different as it pertains to the safety of older relatives. So in this situation pissing off some relations for the safety of others is a bit different than pissing someone off because you want people to take off their shoes to keep your carpet clean.

The handling of it is how you can make others feel you are not judging them. I think this is where Barry falls short - he does not appear to be the most diplomatic. There is a way of handling things that you are less likely to get people pissed at you. It is really your choice how you handle this. Yeah you can take the hardline and say wear a mask or get the hell out of here. Or you can say, sorry but because we want to be very cautious of our older guests, we ask that you wear a mask properly while you are indoors in our home. We greatly appreciate your consideration and adherence.

I also agree with Barry that you can instill any rules you want in your home and property but I also agree with what Max says here -



And that you may not have many other family members visiting if you instill idiotic rules.

Given that your actual personal risk from your son's behavior is quite low, what I would consider important is your family relationships. Is this really worth having a conflict with your wife about?

We all get caught up in principle and take our stands politically. But when it comes to family, relationships are what is important.

I see that now. I hate it when people add more to a story just to fit their scenario. No one is saying because you might be heterosexual / gay or circumcised that you can't come into my house. That is ridiculous. You can't get sick and possibly die from any of those. If you have tuberculosis or whooping cough then I don't want you in my house. I guess some people just want to not see what's in front of their faces and just walk around like it's not affecting them.

He was referring to his elderly relatives as far as safety which we do know is the most at risk.

"I think this is where Barry falls short - he does not appear to be the most diplomatic."

Please tell me how you would do it and how I should have done it. I'm not telling you how to run your house but you seem to want to tell me how to run mine. And I'm not saying "wear a mask or get the hell out." I'm saying that since you are not vaccinated we require you to wear a mask while in our house. How is that wrong to say? "Sorry but because we want to be very cautious of our older guests, we ask that you wear a mask properly while you are indoors in our home. We greatly appreciate your consideration and adherence." Personally I think that's a bit wordy and overkill. Simply put, "Do you mind wearing your mask in our house since you're not vaccinated? Thank you." Straight to the point without all the fluff.

But they are fully vaccinated. I think my calculation of risk is pretty good as a rough estimate. And I am certain that their risk of dying of heart disease is still significantly greater than the risk of covid.

Yes, I accept as a fact that there is some increased risk. I assert that for vaccinated elderly people, the individual risk is quite low.

Barry has to balance that risk with the value he places on these family relationships. It is as simple as that.

Linkat, you have interacted with me enough to know that I say this from experience.

Of course you weren't.

Take it from me, you'll save yourself a lot of grief in the long run if you just put him on ignore.

There is some history here. Izzy is weird bird, and I apparently got on his bad side.

He spent a bunch of time stalking me. He was obsessed, popping up in pretty much every unrelated post to tell everyone not to listen to me. I believe he got suspended for this behavior... and it cured him for a while.

But here he is again.... you will notice that as Izzy is still commenting on my posts. He isn't responding to what I am saying. He is simply upset that I exist and wants you to be upset to.

Obviously Izzy doesn't himself have me on ignore. Either read my posts or don't. I am here either way.

Absolutely NOT.

My house, my rules.

Understood Neptune. Although sadly, I suppose that means you won't be inviting me over for coffee.