The Quote of the Century

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Tony Parkinson - The Age's resident voice of sanity - quotes approvingly France's Jean-Francois Revel: "Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

Hopefully, as we near the edge of the precipice, more voices will pick up this call and the pendulum will start it's swing back to sanity and the road to survival.

The above quote was extracted from an article which appeared today in the "Australian"

You can read more of Jean-Francois Revel here:
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/22/oct03/revel.htm

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You're a real piece of work, rayban.

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If a civilization historically acted in a manner in which no present guilt should follow from their past actions, the need to defend oneself would be greatly diminished.

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candidone1 wrote:

If a civilization historically acted in a manner in which no present guilt should follow from their past actions, the need to defend oneself would be greatly diminished.

Yeah but how likely is that to happen given the fact that human nature has never changed and there is no evidence that it ever will.

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gustavratzenhofer wrote:

You're a real piece of work, rayban.

Stick with the herd "Pal".......right over the cliff.

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What major point are you trying to make, though?

And before anyone else says anything about rayban's link, it is just so you could get an idea of the person who said the quote in red.

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Perhaps a civilization that does so many things that they SHOULD feel guilty for needs to change it's ways.....

Cycloptichorn

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

What major point are you trying to make, though?

And before anyone else says anything about rayban's link, it is just so you could get an idea of the person who said the quote in red.

Thanks Wolf......but do you really think it is necessary for me to spell out my point? I thought I was dealing with critical, thinking adults.

Wolf.....it sounds as though you read something of Jean-Francois Revel. I believe it is ironic that a Frenchman (and there are several) could understand America and Americans better than we do ourselves.

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Well, I ask because there are aa lot of point you could be making and you might not be making all of them, just one or a few of them.

1. You are saying that all critics of the Government should shut up. No one cares about abuses.

2. You are saying that Americans don't have to feel guilty about displacing the Native Americans from their land and that Americans should stop worrying about how the Native Americans (or do they prefer to be called American Indians?) receive the worst education, are the most likely to turn to a crime as a result and are the least likely to climb the social ladder.

3. You are saying that Americans mustn't feel guilty about crimes committed by its own citizens and/or Government outside of its soil, because Americans are Americans and people should move on and forget about the crimes.

4. You are saying that Americans shouldn't feel guilty about the crimes committed by Americans by its own citizens and/or Government. They shouldn't dwell in the past, but should learn from it, make sure it never happens and move on.

I'm sure there are more connotations, but there you go.

It doesn't help that I didn't notice that you had a link to the original source below the link to Monsieur Revel and also that the link doesn't work.

So which major point are you trying to make? All of them? Just one of them? Two of them? All except one? One I haven't thought up of at the moment?

EDIT: And yes, I deliberately picked 1-3 to ensure they were of their current nature, because I know you won't say that's what the purpose of your topic is. However, that is what it could be misconstrued at.

The problem isn't a lack of critical thinking adults. It's more an overabundance of different ways the topic can be interpreted, and I don't know you well enough to be able to guess which way I should interpret it.

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Forget that!! "The quote of the century" ? But we just started it!! Razz

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Wolf

Sorry about that link(it was very long and I can't seem to make the url "thing' work) but if you go here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

You can find the article titled " Mugged by Reality" by Mark Steyn.

My point is none of the above in your response but instead this.......If a society exhausts all it's energy dealing in self flagellation over it's past mistakes, it will soon be destroyed from within because it will be so overcome with guilt that it no longer has the WILL to defend itself.

You are reading something into this quote that does not exist.......it does not mean that a society should not be concerned about it's mistakes but they must be kept in perspective as history. History should not be repeated but feelings of guilt that overcome all other factors is self destructive

We cannot change history and it is healthy to be concerned about past mistakes but not to point of self destruction. The ACLU and purveyors of self destructive forces want us to expend all our energy wringing our hands with guilt.

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astromouse wrote:

Forget that!! "The quote of the century" ? But we just started it!!

But......like all great quotes......this one is good for all time.

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Perhaps this (quote) is a mini history lesson .

Let's see...the Roman empire collapsed because they felt guilty.

No...that doesn't work
Oh that's right...the Romams tried to meddle in eberyone's business...yeah.
That's the ticket!

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panzade wrote:

Perhaps this (quote) is a mini history lesson .

Let's see...the Roman empire collapsed because they felt guilty.

No...that doesn't work
Oh that's right...the Romams tried to meddle in eberyone's business...yeah.
That's the ticket!

Well.....I guess we could adopt the policy of isolationism .......naw, not even John Kerry is that stupid.

Good to see you Panzade.....now I know you're too intelligent to follow the crowd over the cliff indulging in hand wringing guilt.

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I like this quote better>

One of the stranger domestic cultural subplots of the war in Iraq has been the confidence with which so many politicians, commentators and journalists alike have felt comfortable claiming, often on the basis of the most fleeting experience there, how postwar Iraq is going to turn out.

With his "Mission Accomplished" speech aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln in the immediate aftermath of the fall of Baghdad to American forces, and the Range Rover machismo of his "bring 'em on" response to the first serious signs of a homegrown Iraqi insurgent challenge to the US occupation, President Bush remains the world record-holder for this brand of hubris.

But any number of people, from Vice President Cheney down to the most hectoring blowhard on Fox News, have been hard at work making a run for his title.

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Great to see you too rayban...you're like Hellman's...you always bring out the best in me.

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panzade wrote:

Great to see you too rayban...you're like Hellman's...you always bring out the best in me.

Does that mean you are dead meat in the form of sandwich meat?

Might as well talk junk......nobody seems to be capable of serious discussion. :wink:

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rayban1 wrote:

Wolf

Sorry about that link(it was very long and I can't seem to make the url "thing' work) but if you go here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

You can find the article titled " Mugged by Reality" by Mark Steyn.

My point is none of the above in your response but instead this.......If a society exhausts all it's energy dealing in self flagellation over it's past mistakes, it will soon be destroyed from within because it will be so overcome with guilt that it no longer has the WILL to defend itself.

You are reading something into this quote that does not exist.......it does not mean that a society should not be concerned about it's mistakes but they must be kept in perspective as history. History should not be repeated but feelings of guilt that overcome all other factors is self destructive

We cannot change history and it is healthy to be concerned about past mistakes but not to point of self destruction. The ACLU and purveyors of self destructive forces want us to expend all our energy wringing our hands with guilt.

Are you sure about that?

That's why I couldn't see where you're going, because I don't see any wringing of hands with guilt. I see people making up for past mistakes, but not to the point of self destruction, unless of course you're talking about the Iraq War, which was making up for the mistake of supporting Saddam.

Then again, it's your country, so I guess I'll leave it to your people to discuss, but judging from what I've seen, they probably don't understand the motivation behind this post either or just don't want to engage in another exhausting running battle.

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Wolf wrote:

That's why I couldn't see where you're going, because I don't see any wringing of hands with guilt.

You don't see any wringing of hands with guilt??????Wolf where the hell have you been. Haven't you read the numerous front page articles just in the New York Times (reposted here by our apologists) talking about nothing but guilt over Abu Graib.

Next would be the guilt over the collateral damage in the Iraq war.

Next might be the fact that we supported Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war because our officials viewed him as the lesser or two evils

Don't you know that Self Flaggelation is the great American pastime, especially on this forum. They love to see pictures of Abu Graib activities. Yeah I call them activities because from what I've witnessed none of those activities were worse than the hazing one gets at a military academy or at a college fraternity induction. I certainly don't condone what was done by a few warped bad apples who have been identified and punished, but should we commit cultural suicide like the NYTimes and the ACLU want.

Don't have time for anymore.......later!

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rayban1 wrote:

Wolf wrote:
That's why I couldn't see where you're going, because I don't see any wringing of hands with guilt.

You don't see any wringing of hands with guilt??????Wolf where the hell have you been. Haven't you read the numerous front page articles just in the New York Times (reposted here by our apologists) talking about nothing but guilt over Abu Graib.

Well, no, I haven't read the New York Times. Look underneath my avatar. Are you sure that is guilt or wringing of hands with guilt? You see, that's what I got from your impression.

Yes, there's guilt, but wringing of hands with guilt is implying guilt paralysis. You were implying complete paralysis with guilt, which isn't happening. Yes, there's guilt, but people are doing something to readdress it.

It's only when nobody tries to do anything about the guilt that the nation starts to collapse.

Quote:

Don't you know that Self Flaggelation is the great American pastime, especially on this forum. They love to see pictures of Abu Graib activities. Yeah I call them activities because from what I've witnessed none of those activities were worse than the hazing one gets at a military academy or at a college fraternity induction. I certainly don't condone what was done by a few warped bad apples who have been identified and punished, but should we commit cultural suicide like the NYTimes and the ACLU want.

Don't have time for anymore.......later!

Cultural suicide? On the contrary. The US is exporting its own culture to other nations like nothing before.

My country in quite a lot of places has lost its English nature and has become more and more American, with its high streets saturated with so many American chainstores that you might as well slap a sign on us saying, Little America.

US culture is anything but dead. The US nation isn't going to self destruct from all this guilt.

No country has ever self destructed over guilt.

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The Quote of the Century

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