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The Massacre has begun!!

 
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Apr, 2003 01:29 am
US denies troops fired on crowd

Quote:
US forces have denied responsibility for the deaths of at least 10 people in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, after a shooting incident there on Tuesday.

Witnesses said US troops fired into a crowd growing increasingly hostile to a speech being given by the town's newly appointed governor.

A US spokesman said troops were returning fire from a nearby building and did not aim into the crowd.

The incident underlines the difficulties US forces face in trying to keep the peace in a country now confronting an uncertain future.

Some reports suggest up to 15 people were killed in Mosul, with between 60 and 100 people injured. A BBC correspondent in the city says it is now extremely tense.

The trouble began as an angry crowd gathered outside the governor's building, demanding that Kurdish peshmerga fighters and Americans leave the city, witnesses told the BBC.

The city's population is dominated by Sunni Arabs fiercely opposed to Kurdish control.

Mosul's new governor, Mashaan al-Juburi - an Arab associated with the peshmerga - appears to have tried to pacify the crowd.

"He said everything would be restored, water, electricity, and that the Americans [were democratic]," Marwan Mohammed, who said he was a witness, told news agency AFP.

"The Americans [troops] were turning around the crowd. The people moved toward the government building, the children threw stones, the Americans started firing. Then they prevented the people from recovering the bodies," he said.

But this account was contradicted by another witness who spoke to the BBC, who said the first shooting sounded like it came from a light weapon - "a Kalashnikov, not like the weapons Americans have".

A US military spokesman said soldiers had been responding to fire from at least two gunmen in another building.

"We're investigating," said Navy Commander Charles Owens. "All we can say now is that we did not shoot into a crowd."

Kirkuk reprisals

Details are also emerging of revenge attacks which apparently took place in the days following the withdrawal of Iraqi troops from Kirkuk, also in the north of the country.

The human rights organisation, Human Rights Watch, which has just been on a four-day visit to the city, says Baath party officials were the targets of reprisal killings.

At least 40 people died in such attacks, the organisation says.

"They got caught out in clashes between [the withdrawing Iraqi government] and mainly armed civilians," said Hania Mufti, a member of the delegation visiting the city.

"Some of them died in these clashes. Others were wounded, but then they were dragged out and shot dead."

The organisation has also expressed concern over the plight of about 2,000 Arabs who say they were forced to leave their villages around Kirkuk.

They were settled there in the 1970s as part of the Iraqi Government's campaign to "Arabise" an area which had previously belonged to Kurds.

Massoud Barzani, leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party, has condemned any attacks on Arabs by Kurds, and appealed for all Iraqi "brothers" to "safeguard the spirit of peaceful and fraternal coexistence".

The Pentagon appears determined to stave off the resentments and rivalries now coming to the fore follopwing the fall of Saddam Husein's regime.

Although it says major combat operations are over, the number of US-led forces on the ground is in fact growing, and now stands at 140,000, the Pentagon confirmed.

It is also restructuring forces to cope better with the new challenges.

But the Pentagon is still under pressure to do more to fill the security and law and order vacuum left by the collapse of Saddam Hussein's leadership, says BBC correspondent Nick Childs.
Story from BBC NEWS
0 Replies
 
John Webb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Apr, 2003 01:52 am
Has it occurred to no one that, using the Bush logic, Russia now has a duty to invade Iraq to remove an evil murdering military dictator possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 04:29 am
Iraqis killed in anti-US protest

At least 13 Iraqis are reported to have been killed in the town of Falluja when US forces opened fire on demonstrators on Monday night.
There are conflicting reports as to what happened in the town, which lies 50 kilometres (35 miles) west of Baghdad.

A US spokesman said soldiers started shooting after people in the crowd fired on them - but Iraqi witnesses said the protesters were unarmed.

American forces are reported to have entered Falluja for the first time two days ago.

A local Sunni cleric, Kamal Shaker Mahmoud, said the demonstrators were unarmed and had gone to a local school occupied by US forces to ask them to leave, Reuters news agency reports.

"It was a peaceful demonstration. They did not have any weapons. They were asking the Americans to leave the school so they could use it," the cleric is quoted as saying.

Witnesses quoted by the French news agency, AFP, said the demonstrators had been marking Saddam Hussein's birthday when the Americans opened fire.

The report said protesters were carrying portraits of their ousted leader and Iraqi flags when they approached a school manned by US troops.

US Colonel Arnold Bray said American forces had come under fire from the protesters.

Seven people had been killed in the incident, he said.

According to local residents, several children were among the dead.

A Reuters correspondent in the town said mourners chanted "Our soul and our blood we will sacrifice to you martyrs" as burials got under way.
0 Replies
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 06:50 pm
Frolic wrote:
A US spokesman said soldiers started shooting after people in the crowd fired on them - but Iraqi witnesses said the protesters were unarmed.

I see no reasons to trust Iraqis more than Americans. The current intifada revealed one of the mean tactics of the Arab militants: to open fire from behind the backs of the peaceful demonstrators in order to provoke the soldiers to return fire and then to accuse them in massacre of civilians. Such a tactic was widely spread in the fall of 2000 (and the well-known death of the 12-year-old boy Mohammed a-Durra occurred under such circumstances), now it is not used any more by Palestinians, due to curfew that excludes possibility of any demonstrations.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2003 09:05 pm
This is a commentary from Richard Cohen, writer for the Washington Post. I used to read him religiously, until he became sort of a semi-hawk on Iraq. But I looked in on his column today, and it looks like the turmoil in Iraq has him thinking again...

Baghdad Bait and Switch
By Richard Cohen
Tuesday, April 29, 2003; Page A23
It happened again.
As always, it was the middle of the night and I was sound asleep. I was awakened by the sound of the bedroom window being opened and the clump of two feet hitting the floor. I felt the usual breeze on my face. My long-dead grandfather was paying me yet another visit.
"So, nu, where is it?" he yelled.
"Grandpa, is that you?" I asked.
"You were expecting maybe Chemical Ali?"
"Where's what?" I asked.
"The weapons from mass destruction. The chemical stuff and the biological stuff that could make you sick and the atomic stuff that could make you dead. Where are they, college boy? You wrote that this is why you supported the war."
"We'll find them," I said. "Iraq is a big country, the size of --
"I know. California. You think maybe you got snookered?"
"Oh, no, Grandpa. I talked to experts. I went to briefings. They all said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction."
"This the same group of hotshots who said Saddam had a nuclear program that could produce a bomb in six months?"
"Yes."
"Not true, though, right?"
"Looks that way."
"And they said there was some sort of link between Saddam and the terrorists. One guy knew another guy and someone had been in Baghdad and someone else had sent a cake to someone in Brooklyn. You know what this reminds me of? How you could go to a union rally in the old days and pretty soon the FBI had you linked to Joseph Stalin."
"Well, I admit they haven't come up with much proof," I said.
"Much proof? For this your mother sent you to college? How about no proof? Nothing. This poor Gen. Vince Brooks, this guy they had talking like a ventriloquist's dummy, a regular Charlie McCarthy, he had to make a big deal about the capture of Abu Abbas in Baghdad. The New York Times found Abbas in Baghdad last November and interviewed him. Next they're going to find Soupy Sales. For this you fight a war?"
"Okay, but Saddam Hussein was a beast. It was a good thing to get rid of him. He was like another Hitler."
"I read that column where you said that. All my friends said, 'This is your grandson, the hotshot columnist? This is the guy people read so that they should know what to think?' Hitler? Hitler was a threat to the world. Saddam threatened only his own people. He fought for only 26 days. I had longer fights with your grandmother."
"I remember, Grandpa," I said. "But now we're going to have a new government in Iraq and it will be a model for the entire Arab world. When Saddam's statue was toppled, it was like when the Berlin Wall went down."
"When the Berlin Wall went down, the Germans took pieces of it. When the statue went down, the Iraqis took pieces of hospitals and museums."
"You've got a point."
"Hoo-ha! I got a point. Of course I got a point."
"You don't understand, Grandpa. Now we have a chance to transform the Middle East. A democratic Iraq will be an example for the entire region."
"Really? Who says? There is already a democracy in the Middle East. It's called Israel. How come it's never an example, but instead something to be destroyed?"
"It's not an Islamic country."
"I've noticed. Still, the Arabs could see it worked. It's free. It's prosperous. The people make a nice living. What does it matter if it's run by Jews, Irishmen or whirling dervishes?"
"Because . . . I don't know."
"Now we're cooking with gas. There's so much you don't know. First you wanted a war because of terrorism, then because Iraq had a nuclear program. Then you wanted a war because it has poison gas and little crawling things you can't see. Now you want to bring democracy to the Middle East. You know what we use to call this when I was in retail?"
"No, what?

"Bait and switch."
"I still believe we did the right thing," I insisted. "I still think it'll turn out all right."
"From your mouth to God's ear," he said.
"You could help," I said. "You're embedded."
"It doesn't work like that."
Then I heard the window open and felt the breeze on my face. "I hope everything turns out hunky-dory, like you've been writing," he said. "Otherwise, you should have been an accountant and made some money so you could take care of your parents." He looked at me, tenderly.
"Give them my love, boychick."
With that, the window closed, the breeze ceased and I went back to sleep. I had a nightmare that I was an accountant.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51541-2003Apr29.html
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 12:58 am
steissd wrote:
Frolic wrote:
A US spokesman said soldiers started shooting after people in the crowd fired on them - but Iraqi witnesses said the protesters were unarmed.

I see no reasons to trust Iraqis more than Americans. The current intifada revealed one of the mean tactics of the Arab militants: to open fire from behind the backs of the peaceful demonstrators in order to provoke the soldiers to return fire and then to accuse them in massacre of civilians. Such a tactic was widely spread in the fall of 2000 (and the well-known death of the 12-year-old boy Mohammed a-Durra occurred under such circumstances), now it is not used any more by Palestinians, due to curfew that excludes possibility of any demonstrations.


We also all know the tacticts of soldiers armed with M16's in a hostile environment=> they shoot at will on everything that moves. Typical for occupying forces.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:06 am
Quote:
The following is a transcript of comments made in the video interview of Lt. Col. Eric Nantz in Falluja on the shooting incident there:

"I think there was a misunderstanding that occurred but I can tell you that we have a loudspeaker truck with a loudspeaker. You know, you've seen on American television certainly we have protests and their right to speak is something that we honour, we would prefer and exchanges like we just had here I think are good and healthy for the building of a new Iraq but certainly not with the firing of automatic weapons or with the throwing of grenades and stones. Once U.S. soldiers lives are threatened that freedom of speech no longer, that's not the right form any longer for the voice of freedom."

"The problem and that what I was trying to explain to them, that blood, to my belief, is on the hands of those who were firing the weapons at U.S. and coalition forces. When they decided to aim their weapons at this building and the soldiers that were on this building, it's those individuals that fired those weapons and that's who we returned fire on were those with weapons not the crowd that was there although the crowd was hostile." Voice Of America - News


Quote:
Whether or not that version was correct, the incident -- the third reported fatal shooting involving U.S. troops and Iraqi protesters in the past two weeks -- seemed likely to fuel anti-American sentiments here and elsewhere.

"The situation has become very grave," declared Sabah Arrawi, an educational psychologist who serves on Fallujah's newly created city council. "When the Americans came here, we didn't object, but now we want them out." U.S. forces kill 13 Iraqis in mob
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 01:11 am
Those Iraqi must be lousy shooters. No single American wounded in the incident.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2003 06:41 am
Nor, according to an articulate report in the Guardian last night, were any signs of bullets found on the school building where the Americans were holed up. There is simply no evidence that the Iraqis shot at the Americans. There was also no reason for the Americans to be in a town where acceptable governance had been formed; no reason, if they were there, that they should occupy a school in the middle of town (rather than set up a constabulary at the edge of town...). A substantial chunk of that Guardian report has been posted in the US, UN, IRAQ forum, with link to the full article.

There has since been a second incident, with two Iraqis killed.
0 Replies
 
 

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