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Natalie Holloway Case

 
 
Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 02:50 pm
Quote:
Like it or not, the eyes of the entire world are on Aruba. If the mystery of Natalee's disappearance is not resolved by Aruban authorities and justice is not done for Natalee's family, I have no doubt that their "island paradise" won't seem so much like a paradise anymore and the Aruban tourist industry will suffer.

I won't go there on vacation . . . but Bart can go.


Tourism in the U.S. is down. Do you feel this is warranted?

Some of your responses lead me to wonder if you are not only frustrated with an unsolved case, but also infuriated that a crime could happen in a place that promotes itself as an island paradise.

Could you please explain why this particular missing person case is indicative of a corrupt culture whereas the missing person cases in the States are not?
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 03:03 pm
Since when is the United States an island paradise?

Perhaps Joe Schmo in Nebraska might not visit Old Faithful in Montana this year . . . is that because of Montana's crime rate or because Joe can't afford a vacation this year? Perhaps Joe Schmo might not visit the Statue of Liberty . . . is that because of international terrorism, the economy, his personal financial circumstances, or because a girl is missing in Aruba?

You can tour it up all you want in Aruba. Have fun. But I won't be joining you whether you think my boycott of Aruba is warranted or not.
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Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 03:32 pm
Quote:
Tourism in the U.S. is down. Do you feel this is warranted?


Please allow me to clarify myself: there are reports that foreign tourism to the U.S. is down. Do you feel this is warranted?

Quote:
Some of your responses lead me to wonder if you are not only frustrated with an unsolved case, but also infuriated that a crime could happen in a place that promotes itself as an island paradise.


Quote:
Since when is the United States an island paradise?


I am confused about this aspect of your posts. As well as this one:

Quote:
Could you please explain why this particular missing person case is indicative of a corrupt culture whereas the missing person cases in the States are not?


You are well within your right to boycott. I don't believe that is relevant to my questions.

ETA: Welcome to a2k all you 'just hatched' folk. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 04:23 pm
Shazzer wrote:

Please allow me to clarify myself: there are reports that foreign tourism to the U.S. is down. Do you feel this is warranted?


Please provide substantiation for your conclusion that foreign tourism to the U.S. is down and state the reasons for the reduction. One cannot judge whether something is warranted without understanding the cause--and even then, individual decisions to engage in tourism in one location to the exclusion of another location are subjective rather than objective. For instance, if Tourism is reduced in New York City and that reduction can be traced to the terrorist attacks of 9/11, that reduction may or may not be warranted based on the subjective views of the tourists or would-be tourists.

Quote:
Some of your responses lead me to wonder if you are not only frustrated with an unsolved case, but also infuriated that a crime could happen in a place that promotes itself as an island paradise.


You can go back and read my posts. I have made my position clear enough.

Quote:
Since when is the United States an island paradise?


Quote:
I am confused about this aspect of your posts. As well as this one:


Quote:
Could you please explain why this particular missing person case is indicative of a corrupt culture whereas the missing person cases in the States are not?


Comparing apples to oranges -- Aruba to United States -- is irrelevant because Natalee Holloway disappeared in the perceived vacation island paradise of Aruba. She didn't disappear on the streets of New York City or anywhere else. Accordingly, it's the Aruban authorities who are responsible for solving the mystery and doing justice for Natalee and her family.

I referred to a bungled investigation--now weeks (months) old--and the case has grown cold. There were many things that should have been done from the onset but were not--such as immediately seizing the vehicle that Natalee was last riding in before her disappearance and conducting a forensic examination of the vehicle for evidence before the suspects had an opportunity to sanitize the vehicle. If you choose to interpret my complaint about a bungled investigation as indicative of a "corrupt culture," that interpretation belongs to you. Ineptitude does not equate to corruption.

The fact remains that Natalee disappeared after last being seen in the company of three Aruban residents (whether permanent or temporary), the Aruban authorities have bungled the early investigation which diminishes the opportunity for Natalee and her family to obtain justice, and Aruba is no longer an "island paradise" that I would want to visit nor one that lot of other people would want to visit.

It doesn't matter if crime exists everywhere as a general proposition. That's not the issue. I won't be expending my tourism dollars in Aruba. Don't let that stop you from going there. Have fun.
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Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 05:54 pm
Quote:
Please provide substantiation for your conclusion that foreign tourism to the U.S. is down and state the reasons for the reduction.


Sure. I've read reports on both sfgate.com and from the Financial Times. There was also a recent report on CNN to the same effect. I'll quote one article from the U.S Chamber of Commerce for you.

Quote:
The travel and tourism industry was hit hard at the beginning of the decade by a number of factors, including terrorism, new security measures, and an economic downturn. Since 2000, the number of international travelers visiting the United States declined by 9 million, and travel-generated employment dropped by 4.2%. Following September 11, business travel decreased 30%, and leisure travel by air dropped precipitously. And while domestic travel is recovering, the number of inbound international visitors, who spent $80.6 billion in the United States in 2003, is still down. (published June 2004)


Most articles cite terrorism as one, but not the sole, contributing factors. I know from my experiences living abroad, that fear of crime is another factor. I don't have stats on this, only my own experience talking with people who are not American.

My question is whether you think it is warranted.

Quote:
You can go back and read my posts. I have made my position clear enough.


I have read your posts and was asking for some clarification on your position. It isn't clear to me. Is part of your anger derived from the fact that the Aruban tourism Board chose the slogan 'One Happy Island' when it was possible that someone could be unhappy on the island? Is your contention that they are even more culpable because of false advertising? This is how your posts appear to me. Could you please explain this further?
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Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2005 06:19 pm
Quote:
If you choose to interpret my complaint about a bungled investigation as indicative of a "corrupt culture," that interpretation belongs to you. Ineptitude does not equate to corruption.


I believe these statements are not simply reacting to a bungled investigation, but also attempting to portray all Aruban people in a negative light:

Quote:
I'm not going to reward the Arubans for their agonizing inability to do justice for Natalie's family by going there on vacation.

Are you a single girl? If so, there may be a few boys in Aruba looking to show you a good time. . . .


If this was not your intention, please clarify your postition. Of course my interpretation belongs to me. Is it a correct summation of your beliefs?

Do you feel all Arubans who rely on tourism for their income should be made to suffer for the alleged crime committed against Natalee and the subsequent ineptitude of the Aruban police force?

I hope you can understand that I am not telling you to go there. Nor am I trying to find fault with your opinions. I am only asking you some questions about your position in an attempt to better understand it. I realize that these questions are not legal in nature.
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regnmeg
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 10:53 am
never vacation anywhere
Debra_Law wrote:
After Holloway's disappearance and the bungled investigation, I can promise you--I will NEVER vacation in Aruba. It's not an island paradise if you have to worry about becoming prey to island criminals. I would strenuously discourage all the people I know from EVER going there on vacation.

I believe many Americans share a similar sentiment and the Aruban tourist industry will suffer.


Saying that you won't vacation in Aruba because a girl disappeared is stupid. Does this mean that you never go anywhere where there is crime? Never? How about LA, NY, or DC? You must live in a bubble.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 03:36 pm
On the contrary, it is not my alleged stupidity that is on display when a newbie joins a discussion forum, enters a thread, and uses his/her inaugural post to engage in a personal attack.

Welcome to A2K, regnmeg. I hope you have more to offer to our discussions than what you have shown thus far.
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angelar1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 07:56 pm
debra_law

I am sure you are a very smart person but, when it comes to the real world you are a shallow person.
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TressieScott
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2005 10:27 pm
1999 case in Aruba "Larson."
Linkat wrote:
I think I agree with wandeljw. I have been to Aruba and as far as any of the other Caribbean islands that I have been to - Aruba is by far the safest. I traveled by jeep to all areas of the island - remote and otherwise - and the most dangerous thing I ran into was a drunk Aruban wanting to give us a tour of a rock formation garden.

This appears to me to be unfortunately a bad decision by a teenager. The same thing could have happened in any town in the US. A young woman accepting a ride from 3 young men that she didn't really know….

How many other incidents have you heard of in Aruba? The investigation is still going on - it does not mean that the Aruban government bungled anything (at least not yet).





Tonight on the news back 1999 "Larson" don't remember the first name of the top of my head but he came up missing and what a misfortunate that his family had/has no closure..

That's only one that we've heard about since "Natalie's" case.. I'm sure that we will now hear about other misfortunates that have happened over there as well.

It's just a matter of time before more people speak up about situations that are similar..


I pray and hope that the family gets peace and answers to all there questions over in Aruba.
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LynetteR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 12:36 pm
Are you kidding me?
I lived on Aruba for over a year, and the one thing that no one's considering here is the fact that this little island is basically crime-fee. It has never had a need for a CSI unit like LA or NY. Murder is one of those things that just doesn't happen there. No wonder the police were ill equipped to deal with it. They never have to. The expectations of Mrs Twitty and her family that somehow they were dealing with a suffisicated crime unit were completely rediculous. Aruba is another country and subject to Dutch law (which is WAY different that the US). Beth arrived on the island with a news crew within hours of her daughters disappearance with posters that read "KIDNAPPED" not "missing. Why? There's a lot more family involment under the table here than most americans would believe. Why was Beth seen partying and gambling in the casinos, playing tennis, etc. while the entire island was searching for her daughter? Her call for a boycott has done nothing to hurt the olice in Aruba, but the drop in tourism has devistaed the many innocent Arubans who have always been sympathetic to her situation. Shame on her!
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LynetteR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 12:53 pm
Bamygirl,
You're an idiot! I lived in Aruba. The people are wonderful there. They're the one's that get hurt with a boycott... NOT the government officials or the police. This is totally mis-guided logic. If you think the police really care whether or not people go to Aruba or not...Your wrong. They still make their money. But, the innocent people there who's hearts went out to Mrs. Twitty the whole time will lose their livelihood because they're the ones who depend on touism to feed their families. People like you have the wrong idea of how things are on Aruba. Have you even ever been there? If not, you are not qualified to critisize it's police, government, or people.
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LynetteR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 01:04 pm
vaughn15 wrote:
Yes, Natalee made some very bad choices and obviously suffered the ultimate for it. It is also very obvious that not everything was done in the beginning to solve this case so guess what, plenty of time for any forensic evidence to be destroyed, duh. The political clout of the young man's father played a large role in the bungling of this case; the same thing happens here in the U.S. all the time. Then again, what about the foreigners who have committed horrendous crimes in this country that have been given diplomatic immunity; this truly disgusts me.

Natalee was a young girl and like most students was in Aruba for a good time, no matter her choices she did NOT deserve to die.

Nuff said.

Who said she was dead??? Honestly! Haven't you heard about the statements she was making to everyone (including her friends there with her) that she hated that "Hitler" of a mother of her's and that she would never go back to Alabama no matter what? I lived in Aruba during this whole thing and I'm still amazed at how much the average american doesn't know about what happened there, or how litlle the actual facts of the case have been reported here by the american press. Believe me when I say there's a lot of things that you people here don't kow.
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LynetteR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 01:10 pm
Debra Law wrote:
An island community that depends on tourism for the bulk of its economic prosperity cannot maintain that prosperity if the tourists must fear falling victim to crime.

Neither the age of the victim nor the age of the suspected perpetrator are relevant. It makes no difference if Aruba is relatively "safe" and has only one drunk, horny young perpetrator (criminal) who can't take "no" for an answer and rapes and murders . . . the entire tourist industry will suffer if the Aruban authorities are unable to solve the mystery of Holloway's disappearance.

Someone disposed of her body to hide evidence of a crime and the stench of foul play cannot be eliminated with any kind of minimization.

I'm not going to blame the victim, Natalie Holloway, by chalking her disappearance up to her bad decision to get into a car with three strangers. If she felt that she was safe in Aruba in the company of its residents . . . she shouldn't have felt safe. In the future, no one should feel safe from crime when they vacation in Aruba.

Again. I will NEVER vacation in Aruba.

Debrah,
What the heck makes you believe that Natalie is dead? There's no evidence that a murder was ever committed and there and no body was ever found. There has never been any evidence that she was ever murdered. On the contrary, she made numorous statements suggesting that she hated her mother and that she would never go bac to Alabama. Where do you get that she was murdered out of this? The only thing disgusting about this case is people's tendancy to only see the worst. The fact is that the peple of Aruba and their little island are gret and do not deserve the financial loss this whole thing and people like you have promoted.
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LynetteR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 01:12 pm
Re: Natalie Holloway
bamygirl wrote:
I PROMISE YOU THAT IF ALL THE US CITIZENS WHO HAVE VACATIONS PLANNED TO ARUBA WOULD CANCEL, THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT WOULD GET TO THE BOTTOM OF NATALIE'S DISAPPEARANCE. IT IS ABSURD TO THINK THAT ALL OF THESE SO-CALLED INVESTIGATORS/INTERROGATORS CANNOT BREAK ONE YOUNG MAN DOWN. I BELIEVE IF THESE INVESTIGATORS WOULD JUST "PUT IT WHERE THE GOATS CAN GET IT" TO THESE OTHER TWO BOYS, THEN THEY WOULD MOST DEFINITELY GET SOME ANSWERS.

IMHO, You're a fool who knows nothing about the effects a boycott would actually have in Aruba. Be quiet unless you intend to educate yourself more on the facts and the country you're talking about.
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jxlvr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:15 pm
What if she was sold?
I know this is nuts but I saw Hostel. What if she was sold. And there was a true movie on that sold young women for sex and they leave the country with them. She could be somewhere like that. I doubt it but I wonder if they ever look in to that type of thing.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:22 am
Re: What if she was sold?
jxlvr wrote:
I know this is nuts but I saw Hostel. What if she was sold. And there was a true movie on that sold young women for sex and they leave the country with them. She could be somewhere like that. I doubt it but I wonder if they ever look in to that type of thing.


I actually was thinking about that the other day. These three guys could still be involved and "sold" her either that or they fed her to the sharks. I've been to Aruba and on one side of the island away from all the resorts, the ocean is very rough and is known to have many sharks. People do not swim there as the ocean is too dangerous. Also, there is an area known to be used to dump garbage so the sharks love it there.
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jodie34
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 06:48 pm
When Natalie went to Aruba with her classmates didn't adults go along to be Chaprones? I thought chaprones were to keep track of so many in a group at all times. It just doesn't make sense to me that she would stay back with three total strangers if she hadn't been drinking. I think most of us have been taught to not go with strangers.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:22 pm
jodie34 wrote:
When Natalie went to Aruba with her classmates didn't adults go along to be Chaprones? I thought chaprones were to keep track of so many in a group at all times. It just doesn't make sense to me that she would stay back with three total strangers if she hadn't been drinking. I think most of us have been taught to not go with strangers.


These weren't strangers (at least to her most likely) - these were cute rich boys that she was having fun partying with before hand, had a bit too much to drink possibly because of being young and naivee and felt the were fun nice boys.
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jodie34
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Feb, 2008 03:59 pm
Linkat,

Yes these three boys were strangers. Maybe rich , cute or what ever I
just can't imagine a girl taking off with three boys. She must have had too much to drink or very irresponsible. This is not something you should do whether you're in Aruba or anywhere else.
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