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Reflections on Reason in society.

 
 
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 01:37 pm
A couple of hours ago I was debating Reason with some friends and these three sentences popped up in my mind, as usual out of nowhere. They are pretty much straightforward common sense but still can give you pause.
Feel free to give your input and criticism. What other modalities are there?

Reflections on reason in society:
1 - There are people who like to be right.
2 - There are people who don't like anyone to be right.
3 - There are people who like Reason.

 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 03:43 pm
Why stop at three?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 04:29 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
All three of those describe me.

What is the point of reason if you can't be right.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 08:16 pm
@maxdancona,
Reason is an end on itself, not a medium to promote yourself.
That said, it is Okeish to feel good when you are right so long that feeling does not degenerate in vanity. Vanity its an impediment for innovation, developing new perspectives, and evolving your knowledge overall.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 08:20 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I pushed just three as a classical magic number of examples so that others can contribute with a couple more. This was a short couple of one-liners not a PHD thesis on the subject. I am looking forward to some more variants on the topic.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 08:21 pm
Many who pride themselves on their use of reason start to stray once they leave their own field of expertise. Not targeting anybody, just saying.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 08:25 pm
@edgarblythe,
All very true but one cannot stop people from formulating opinions upon anything, it's human nature. This goes from average village idiots to Nobel winners... I agree that people within the public eye should be more cautious.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 08:33 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I wouldn't muzzle anybody for it. Just saying I'm cautious about it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 10:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
I know you wouldn't, it is not in your nature as far as I know you. But the point was that everybody looks for an overarching explanation and nobody is qualified to have one. Should we all stay rationally silent then?
It's funny you know...I keep being under the impression no one would want to be an expert on any subject if the intimate goal was not to inductively get to try to have at least a vague grasp upon everything else.
From all those videos that I regularly see every day, I have never seen so many scientists do so much naive philosophy wildly departing from their fields of expertise to have a glimpse of the meaning of being around. Tabu tabu...irony is everywhere around us, and I am not excluding myself from the long harm of irony in every inch of dabbling with words when I write on the internet.
Speaking about loving to be right I have a spin-off on it. It amuses me to see a bunch of smartish monkeys including the creme de la creme, the Nobels, the best on the field, being so messed up, so torn apart by language games and obscure concepts that trap them in their cultural time frame no matter how much they try, and knowing that I myself although aware of their failure am just as much incapable. My little victory on the road to Truth is to really know not just fake it, that I really really don't know ****! Not just on X or Y, but about everything around me. In that regard, I somewhat am on top of the game. Homo Sapiens is truly insufficient!
Ask me what is motion, I don't know...what is energy, I don't know, what is matter, I don't know, what is life, again I don't know. We speak through metaphors even in the most hardcore fields like mathematics geometry or physics...The contradictions multiply and traps in languaging are everywhere...
Lately, I have been giving some thought to dimensionality and degrees of freedom (freedom go figure) and pondering upon what is motion...and oh boy what to say...never seen one dimensional anything around me let alone eleven...spacetime being emergent stops the chain of causation to start the very existence of anything or redirects the problem to a meta spacetime in some upper level of reality...where does information fits and how does it act without time or transit?...words fail us every second...traps everywhere...and all along the hubris, the vanity, the aspirations of a bunch of pissing smart monkeys are the best we got to entertain ourselves and forget that we are mortal.
Fuch...man the animal, the savage, the untamed, the hermit, the one who can't read but immerses himself in its natural ground, along with other animals deserves my utmost respect, because in there lies the one honest human being.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2020 11:18 pm
A man that does love Reason doesn't lie about his ignorance.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 02:00 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

All three of those describe me.


And another thread becomes all about Max.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 06:17 am
@izzythepush,
Hi Izzy.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 06:19 am
@maxdancona,
Why no posts on the Doctor Who thread?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 06:19 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I don't accept that reason has intrinsic value.

Imagine a Reason machine, that could take axioms and develop ironclad conclusions. I am not sure this machine would even be considered intelligent. It certainly wouldn't have a soul.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 08:11 am
@maxdancona,
Reason equals Ratio. Without it nothing would work. Not even your ability to agree or disagree. If that has no intrinsic value I don't know what does. But alas I always suspected you really didn't knew what the word truly means.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 08:32 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
So you don't agree with his reasoning?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 09:15 am
@izzythepush,
So it seems...its half, of my own half-backed reasoning...without absolute references, I still can make relative comparisons. Of course, in all candor, it doesn't matter how much more wrong one is in relation to another form of wrong. That said "alien" reasoning is not compatible with my own reasoning. Trivial also but a fact.

PS - ...and yes, I do make a clear distinction between Reason and reasoning.
Reason is the final object with all the time available and all the string of Order, all the History. We, within time, have access to the unfolding partial process therefore we cannot match it. Nor a Demi-God could for that purpose. The final Object which is Reason is the space of all possible combinations of Order and Complexity.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 11:02 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:


3 - There are people who like Reason.

I don't know anybody who reads Reason magazine. Especially because this **** Libertarian rag employs, sentient soiled Depends-undergarment, John Stossel, (amongst other reasons).

Or are you referring to small r reason? As it's pretty goofy to see ...
Quote:
noun
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.:
the reason for declaring war.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action:
I dare you to give me one good reason for quitting school!

as some singular institution or movement held by one group or movement of thought.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 11:21 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

So it seems...its half, of my own half-backed reasoning...without absolute references, I still can make relative comparisons. Of course, in all candor, it doesn't matter how much more wrong one is in relation to another form of wrong. That said "alien" reasoning is not compatible with my own reasoning. Trivial also but a fact.

PS - ...and yes, I do make a clear distinction between Reason and reasoning.
Reason is the final object with all the time available and all the string of Order, all the History. We, within time, have access to the unfolding
partial process therefore we cannot match it. Nor a Demi-God could for that purpose. The final Object which is Reason is the space of all
possible combinations of Order and Complexity.


Good post. I have to agree with it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2020 01:17 pm
@tsarstepan,
Yo Tsar are you making a joke or you want my help? I don't know shiiz man, sorry!
Dictionaries are good fun, hold on to them!
0 Replies
 
 

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