0
   

Slavery reparations

 
 
ipxpert
 
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 08:40 am
It was recently determined that Senator Warren's claim of Native American ancestry was proven true because her DNA test revealed that she had one (1) or more NA ancestors.

IF slavery reparations are implemented; logic concludes that anyone with 1 or more African American ancestors should qualify.

Agree or disagree?
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 08:58 am
@ipxpert,
If that were the case, this guy could claim any benefit.



Senator Warren has the DNA of people who were already here.

In your example one would have to prove that any ancestors you might have in that 1% were part of the majority who were kidnapped and brought to the Americas to be enslaved.
There were a number that came over on their own during that time, and afterwards. They were never slaves.

Or, you might have a great great grandmother/father who was born in Africa and came over here of their own choice some time in the last 150 years.

You would have to show that at least one relative was actually enslaved.

You don't have to prove a negative. You must prove a positive.

ipxpert
 
  0  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 10:28 am
@chai2,
Quote:
If that were the case, this guy could claim any benefit.


Irony...

Quote:
Senator Warren has the DNA of people who were already here.


Yes. And were raped, enslaved, sold, killed, etc.

Quote:
In your example one would have to prove that any ancestors you might have in that 1% were part of the majority who were kidnapped and brought to the Americas to be enslaved.
There were a number that came over on their own during that time, and afterwards. They were never slaves.


They were never slaves? Huh? Like African Americans; they were slaves and slaveholders.

"Native American slavery “is a piece of the history of slavery that has been glossed over,” Fisher said. “Between 1492 and 1880, between 2 and 5.5 million Native Americans were enslaved in the Americas in addition to 12.5 million African slaves.”

https://www.brown.edu/news/2017-02-15/enslavement

"When you think of the Trail of Tears, you likely imagine a long procession of suffering Cherokee Indians forced westward by a villainous Andrew Jackson. Perhaps you envision unscrupulous white slaveholders, whose interest in growing a plantation economy underlay the decision to expel the Cherokee, flooding in to take their place east of the Mississippi River.

What you probably don’t picture are Cherokee slaveholders, foremost among them Cherokee chief John Ross. What you probably don’t picture are the numerous African-American slaves, Cherokee-owned, who made the brutal march themselves, or else were shipped en masse to what is now Oklahoma aboard cramped boats by their wealthy Indian masters. And what you may not know is that the federal policy of Indian removal, which ranged far beyond the Trail of Tears and the Cherokee, was not simply the vindictive scheme of Andrew Jackson, but rather a popularly endorsed, congressionally sanctioned campaign spanning the administrations of nine separate presidents."


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

"Among those striving for freedom and security in Spanish Florida was Anna Kingsley. Anna was the African wife of plantation owner Zephaniah Kingsley. At an early age she survived the Middle Passage and dehumanizing slave markets to become the property of Kingsley. After manumission by her husband, Anna became a landowner and slaveholder. She raised her four children while managing a plantation that utilized African slave labor. She survived brutal changes in race policies and social attitudes brought by successive governments in Florida, but survival demanded difficult, often dangerous, choices."

https://www.nps.gov/timu/learn/historyculture/kp_annakingsley.htm










0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2019 11:41 am
@chai2,
Reread what I wrote. I am talking about people from Africa.

Your question was about African Americans.

Not all were born of slaves. Not all Africans came over during the time of slavery.



chai2 wrote:


In your example one would have to prove that any ancestors you might have in that 1% were part of the majority who were kidnapped and brought to the Americas to be enslaved.
There were a number that came over on their own during that time, and afterwards. They were never slaves.

Or, you might have a great great grandmother/father who was born in Africa and came over here of their own choice some time in the last 150 years.

You would have to show that at least one relative was actually enslaved.

You don't have to prove a negative. You must prove a positive.


ipxpert
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 12:04 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
Reread what I wrote. I am talking about people from Africa.

Your question was about African Americans.

Not all were born of slaves. Not all Africans came over during the time of slavery.


Sorry, but my question goes more to the criteria of determining who is a slave and who is not - when determining who should get reparations.

African, Native & other Americans were enslaved.

Warren's claim of Native American ancestry is based on 1 or more persons in her entire ancestry. If a senior Senator/Presidential candidate considers 1 person in her background as legitimate criteria for inclusion, then should the same criteria be used for determining who gets reparations?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 12:22 pm
@ipxpert,
ipxpert wrote:

Quote:
Reread what I wrote. I am talking about people from Africa.

Your question was about African Americans.

Not all were born of slaves. Not all Africans came over during the time of slavery.


Sorry, but my question goes more to the criteria of determining who is a slave and who is not - when determining who should get reparations.

African, Native & other Americans were enslaved.

Warren's claim of Native American ancestry is based on 1 or more persons in her entire ancestry. If a senior Senator/Presidential candidate considers 1 person in her background as legitimate criteria for inclusion, then should the same criteria be used for determining who gets reparations?



Slavery should be a dead issue along with the masters and the slaveries however there are still alive and kicking black men and women who was treated very unfairly due to their skin color by the government in such matter of homes loans, farm loans an accepted to colleges an on and on.

Those people along with their families should be able to place claims against the government in the manner of the Japans Americans who was place in camps during WW2.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 12:34 pm
@ipxpert,
ipxpert wrote:

Quote:
Reread what I wrote. I am talking about people from Africa.

Your question was about African Americans.

Not all were born of slaves. Not all Africans came over during the time of slavery.


Sorry, but my question goes more to the criteria of determining who is a slave and who is not - when determining who should get reparations.

African, Native & other Americans were enslaved.

Warren's claim of Native American ancestry is based on 1 or more persons in her entire ancestry. If a senior Senator/Presidential candidate considers 1 person in her background as legitimate criteria for inclusion, then should the same criteria be used for determining who gets reparations?




Doesn't change my answer one iota.

I'll let you ponder why.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 05:31 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


Slavery should be a dead issue along with the masters and the slaveries however there are still alive and kicking black men and women who was treated very unfairly due to their skin color by the government in such matter of homes loans, farm loans an accepted to colleges an on and on.

Those people along with their families should be able to place claims against the government in the manner of the Japans Americans who was place in camps during WW2.


The OP wants people to believe he's using logic because he says "logic concludes" as if saying that makes it so.

He uses the word "native american" as if that means culture originating in America are all from one pot.

Yes, a group, or groups of people did migrate into america from asia 15,000 plus years ago.
Just as people migrated into Europe 42,000 years ago.

In both cases, the people spread out in all directions, in their own groups, ending up thousands of miles away from each other. For simplicities sake, Europeans can all be labled as "white", but have little or nothing in common beside the fact they are humans. Same goes for NA's

Using the OP's logic, if the people of Wales were at some point enslaved, people who currently live in Russia can claim being a victim of slavery, as both groups are white.

And what about the fact that NA's enslaved people from other tribes themselves? Should some tribes be seeking reparations from another tribe?

There are 573 federally recognized tribes in the US. Where people from each of these tribes enslaved by whites?

Why would a Russian whose roots have been in the land currently known as Russia for thousands of years get reparation because Vikings enthralled people from the British Isles?

What about if my family immigrated to the British Isles from Greece 200 years ago? Can I claim reparations from the people descended from Vikings?

roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 06:28 pm
@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

There are 573 federally recognized tribes in the US. Where people from each of these tribes enslaved by whites?

Actually, yes. Ask almost any pueblo tribe from Arizona or New Mexico about the Spanish intruders.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 07:04 pm
@roger,
All right, we have Arizon and New Mexico covered then, if you say so.

How about the rest of continental America?

Are you saying that each and every tribe from sea to sea, north to south, in each and every what we know today as states had someone who was enslaved by some white population? Which white population? Spain? Americans? French? British?

Anyway, are the people you're speaking of supposed to go to the government of Spain for their reparations? Did Spain enslave/harm people of tribes living in todays New Hampshire, Vermont or Washington State?

Should one NA tribe that regularly kidnapped, maimed and tortured and enslaved members of another tribe for centuries pay retribution to them today?

What about NA tribes that enslaved people from Africa, or their ancestors? What do they owe their ancestors?

Show your data where people from each and every tribe were made slaves by people whose anscestors are now white citizens of the United States.

A NA from let's say Arizon culturally has as much in common culturally with an NA from Quebec or Rhode Island or South Florida as I have with someone in Japan or Afganistan.

Personally, I think it's disrespectful to just lump them all together. Same as talking like a black person raised in San Diego has much in common with a black person from Haiti or the Gold Coast, or even Michigan.

I certainly don't want to be lumped in with the people born in a particular country in Europe where my ancestors were from. Who, btw, were I'm sure enslaved (in so many words) at one time or another by different countries around them.

0 Replies
 
 

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