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Stem cells from UNfertilized eggs?

 
 
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:27 pm
I was reading an article in Newsweek about women donating their eggs for scientifc research. One sentence in the article mentions that researchers are tying to find a way to extract stem cells from unfertilized eggs.

If its possible, would this make stem cell therapies acceptable to the nay-sayers or will there be an attempt to proclaim the eggs themselves "life"?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,173 • Replies: 19
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:47 pm
...and if so, what would they do to guys who masturbate? (Thousands and thousands of little tiny lives snuffed!)
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:25 pm
If I recall, sperm is not needed - only a certain enzyme found in sperm - to "trick" an egg into dividing.

Men are really off the hook, reproductively speaking.

Just for the sake of debate, if it were to be decided that an egg in itself is a person, where would that lead us?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:31 pm
My point was more that if we are extending the definition of life (or whatever needs to be protected) to before conception, it would have to apply to sperm as well. An egg is just an egg until it is fertilized, with whole sperm or just the enzyme. It's POTENTIAL life. Same with the sperm.
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:35 pm
can you get the same results from an unfertilized egg?? For the research i mean..
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boomerang
 
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Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:47 pm
I have no idea!

Here's the quote:

Quote:
she's attempting to derive stem cells directly from unfertilized eggs


Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8185339/site/newsweek/

I know where you're coming from on the sperm thing, soz! I'm sure someone will come up with an argument to make that point moot.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:09 pm
Quote:
I know where you're coming from on the sperm thing, soz! I'm sure someone will come up with an argument to make that point moot.


Men were not born to cradle life, dummy.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:39 pm
What if they could create the enzyme synthetcially?

What then?

If a woman was murdered would they be able to charge the killer with multiple murders according to the woman's health and demographics?
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Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:49 pm
Hey Boomer,

It's already been done. I believe I posted about it a couple of months or more back in one of the other stem cell threads. It's been done in China and to the best of my recollection the enzyme needed to trick the egg into believing it is fertilized does not even have to come from a male at all but comes from the woman herself..let me see if I can find that post if you would like....

I'll post this and then come back with the link if I can find it. Smile
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Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:59 pm
Argh...I need a tutorial. I have never liked to another thread so I am just quoting what I had mentioed before. And I don't have the source, but if I remember correctely it a medical magazine of sorts.. Sad Lame, huh?





Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 1205
Location: My Bard's warm and wonderful cottage
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:31 am Post: 1029388 -

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Thank you for your input to this discussion, Idaho. I do appreciate your views.

I want to point out the differences in stems cells a bit if I may. Einherjar mentioned the differences as well, but I would love to expand on that.

Adult stem cells
Stem cells found in different tissues of the developed, adult organism that remain in an undifferentiated, or unspecialized, state. These stem cells can give rise to specialized cell types of the tissue from which they came, i.e., a heart stem cell can give rise to a functional heart muscle cell, but it is still unclear whether they can give rise to all different cell types of the body.

Umbilical cord stem cells
Hematopoietic stem cells are present in the blood of the umbilical cord during and shortly after delivery. These stem cells are in the blood at the time of delivery, because they move from the liver, where blood-formation takes place during fetal life, to the bone marrow, where blood is made after birth. Umbilical cord stem cells are similar to stem cells that reside in bone marrow, and can be used for the treatment of leukemia, and other diseases of the blood. Efforts are now being undertaken to collect these cells and store them in freezers for later use. However, one problem is that there may not be enough umbilical cord stem cells in any one sample to transplant into an adult.

Embryonic stem cell
Also called ES cells, embryonic stem cells are cells derived from the inner cell mass of developing blastocysts. An ES cell is self-renewing (can replicate itself), pluripotent (can form all cell types found in the body) and theoretically is immortal.

This is, in my opinion, why the Embryonic cells are so vitally important to Therapeutic Stem Cell Research.

What is even more amazing is that now they can create a (blastocyst).....
Blastocyst
A very early embryo consisting of approximately 150 cells. The blastocyst is a spherical cell mass produced by cleavage of the zygote (fertilized egg). It contains a fluid-filled cavity, a cluster of cells called the inner cell mass (from which embryonic stem cells are derived) and an outer layer of cells called the trophoblast (that forms the placenta)

....without using sperm for fertilization, but using a woman's own cumulus cells. Researchers used a process called nuclear transfer, which involves removing the nucleus from an egg cell and replacing it with the nucleus of a so-called adult cell -- in this case a cumulus cell.

No sperm, blastocyst created, stem cells retrieved. Where is the moral or ethical issue with this point? Just curious....
0 Replies
 
Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:03 pm
A wee bit more....


Lady J
Seasoned Member



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 1206
Location: My Bard's warm and wonderful cottage
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:49 pm Post: 1030035 -

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Idaho wrote:
Now, a UC Berkeley bioengineer has devised a way to enhance the utility of adult stem cells that could steal some of the spotlight away from embryonic stem cells and eventually lead to treatments or cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Adult stem cells - alzheimers

Human fat cells used for stem cell show promise:
MSN - human fat stem cells

Adult stem cells have already produced amazing results, IN HUMANS, but is being largely ignored by the media. Doesn't that seem strange?
Adult stem cells in human trials


You are absolutely correct. There is a huge potential for using specialized transplanted cells, but I think the media (as it likes to overdramatize everything) has picked up on the the most controversial of stem cell news and that is the embryonic, of course.

There are a lot of ways that "part specific" stem cells can and hopefully will be utilized... some more examples of what you already mentioned are:

Bone marrow stromal cell
Also known as mesenchymal stem cells, bone marrow stromal cells are a mixed population of cells derived from the non-blood forming fraction of bone marrow. Bone marrow stromal cells are capable of growth and differentiation into a number of different cell types including bone, cartilage and fat.

Mesemchymal stem cell
Also known as bone marrow stromal cells, mesenchymal stem cells are rare cells, mainly found in the bone marrow, that can give rise to a large number of tissue types such as bone, cartilage (the lining of joints), fat tissue, and connective tissue (tissue that is in between organs and structures in the body

Neural stem cell
A type of stem cell that resides in the brain, which can make new nerve cells (called neurons) and other cells that support nerve cells (called glia). In the adult, neural stem cells can be found in very specific and very small areas of the brain where replacement of nerve cells is seen.

These are a few....but they don't cover the entire bases that can be derived from the stem cells of a blastocyst, which can literally become any part of any body.

I just thought of something kind of interesting....Cumulus cells are only found in the ovaries of women. Men have no cumulus cells. Cumulus cells are the cells scientists have used for cell nuclear transfer (removing the nucleus of the woman's egg and transferring the cumulus cell into the egg to replace the original nucleus). Does this mean, that women could be potentially "medically A-sexual?


Hehehe...we don need no stinkin mens! Just kidding, just kidding!!
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:05 pm
sozobe wrote:
...and if so, what would they do to guys who masturbate? (Thousands and thousands of little tiny lives snuffed!)

Or any of you women who have less than 500 children? (Or whatever the number of eggs is that could be fertilized over your lifetime but aren't)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:10 pm
Yep, was thinking of that, too.

Menstruation -- the murder of a poor innocent egg.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:15 pm
Well, you can trick a tomato blossom into producing a fruit without pollen. Then you get seedless tomatos. Betcha' didn't know that, huh.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 03:23 pm
roger wrote:
Well, you can trick a tomato blossom into producing a fruit without pollen. Then you get seedless tomatos. Betcha' didn't know that, huh.

Poor tomatoes -- they never get to have any fun ...
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 04:56 pm
Great information, Lady J. Thank you for finding the posts.

You're question is exactly my question - condidering this, where is the moral delimna if this technique can be used?

I'm guessing that there isn't one -- nobody's showed up here to argue the point, anyway.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around 500 children when you start up with the seedless tomatos!

I'm guessing that if a woman has 40ish years of fertility and she conceived exactly upon giving birth that she would only have to have 13 kids a year to pass government muster.

Perhaps there will come a day when women will not be judged on the size of her boobs but on the number....
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 05:03 pm
Boomer, I posted this on 5/20


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1347579#1347579
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 09:44 am
Interesting, Gelisgesti!

Who would have thought that Korea would surpass everyone on such research?

I imagine there is a lot of privately funded research happening that isn't being talked about for fear of morality-backlash.

I think this is the future of health care and America had better get on board.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 10:48 am
How true especially when you consider that to the potential recipients months and years are likened to a tick of a clock. Kind of like 'a watched pot never boils'.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2005 03:30 pm
boomerang wrote:
I have no idea!

Here's the quote:

Quote:
she's attempting to derive stem cells directly from unfertilized eggs


Here's a link to the whole article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8185339/site/newsweek/

I know where you're coming from on the sperm thing, soz! I'm sure someone will come up with an argument to make that point moot.


Took a little bit of poking around in the journals, but they've found a way to induce parthenogenesis. Very cool. (The protocol, in fact, was published in 2001 -- pretty old news.) Still produces things that could become adults, so the folks who object to current methods of cloning are going to object to this one, too.
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