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Impeachment: The Process Begins

Forums: Trump, Impeachment
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InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:15 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
So, why don't the Republicans want Bolton to testify?

Because it will destroy Executive privilege, a power used by presidents since the country's founding. Republicans are adhering to the Constitution and refuse to weaken the equal power of the Executive branch.

Use of executive privilege in an impeachment trial would be abuse of power.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:17 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Use of executive privilege in an impeachment trial would be abuse of power.

Not until the court says it is. That is the point you people have missed from the start. Congress does not have the power to bully the president.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:33 pm
@oralloy,
Thing is, they arent innocent and the crimes arent imaginary.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:34 pm
@coldjoint,
No. It says it all very succinctly.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:37 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
No. It says it all very succinctly.

Your posts say absolutely nothing, why do you bother?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 02:57 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

So, why don't the Republicans want Bolton to testify?


I don't know for sure. I do know the President blocked his testimony under the long-established right of Presidents for privacy in their discussions with direct advisors. If Democrats wanted an exception to this rule their recourse was in the Federal courts. For reasons, also unknown to me, they chose not to do that. Their call, and their consequences.

Why do you suppose Democrats don't want either Biden or his son to testify? It appears to me they were central figures relatively to the question of investigations into corruption in Ukraine.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 04:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Thing is, they arent innocent and the crimes arent imaginary.

Wrong. Scooter Libby was innocent. You framed him for an imaginary crime.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 05:04 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

So, why don't the Republicans want Bolton to testify?


I don't know for sure. I do know the President blocked his testimony under the long-established right of Presidents for privacy in their discussions with direct advisors. If Democrats wanted an exception to this rule their recourse was in the Federal courts. For reasons, also unknown to me, they chose not to do that. Their call, and their consequences.

Why do you suppose Democrats don't want either Biden or his son to testify? It appears to me they were central figures relatively to the question of investigations into corruption in Ukraine.


The accusations against the Bidens have been discredited. Calling them as witnesses would rehash the same discredited accusations and detract from the purpose of the trial, to remove Trump for abuse of power in a bribery scheme to smear the Bidens using public funds.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 05:21 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The accusations against the Bidens have been discredited.

I disagree. The accusations against the Bidens have never been seriously investigated.

What has been discredited are the accusations against Mr. Trump.


InfraBlue wrote:
Calling them as witnesses would rehash the same discredited accusations and detract from the purpose of the trial, to remove Trump for abuse of power in a bribery scheme to smear the Bidens using public funds.

Calling them as witnesses would establish:

a) that the Bidens engaged in actual wrongdoing and there is nothing untoward about investigating them, and

b) that Joe Biden put the same sort of pressure on Ukraine as the Democrats are pretending was wrong for Mr. Trump to do.


I'm sure that allowing defendants to present a defense detracts from the purpose of convicting them, but the Senate is not about to play along with the Democrats' witch hunt.

Allowing defendants to present a defense is a necessary part of having a fair trial. And if the charges are not simply dismissed outright, Mr. Trump is going to be allowed to present a defense.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 05:22 pm
@InfraBlue,

Quote:
The accusations against the Bidens have been discredited.

That was done by now discredited intelligence agencies that were weaponized to protect Biden and the Obama administration. A real investigation is necessary.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 05:37 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:


Quote:
The accusations against the Bidens have been discredited.

That was done by now discredited intelligence agencies that were weaponized to protect Biden and the Obama administration. A real investigation is necessary.

What exactly was discredited? There were international calls for the ouster of that Ukrainian Prosecutor General.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:18 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

a) that the Bidens engaged in actual wrongdoing and there is nothing untoward about investigating them, and

b) that Joe Biden put the same sort of pressure on Ukraine as the Democrats are pretending was wrong for Mr. Trump to do.

How funny would it be if Trump was removed from office for something the Bidens did also, and then Biden got elected president in the wake of the impeachment?

I have the feeling that the drug-policing industry works in a similar way (at least sometimes); i.e. one drug dealer turns the other one into police to get rid of the competition and then pay off or otherwise reward the police for helping them get control over their market.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:21 pm
@livinglava,
Not funny at all. Progressives really need to be removed from society and placed in labor camps for reeducation.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 06:43 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:

What exactly was discredited?

Obama's weaponizing of agencies and the overwhelming bias in their investigations is no assurance Biden has been properly investigated.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 11:17 pm
@coldjoint,
Why should he be investigated?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2020 11:46 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Why should he be investigated?

If you have to ask that then you know nothing about it. I guess we are through here.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2020 12:30 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Why should he be investigated?

Why should Mr. Trump be investigated?

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:45 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Why should he be investigated?

Why should Mr. Trump be investigated?

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Trump was investigated for abusing the office of POTUS for personal gain. Biden was acting on behalf of the US government for an end that the government and other countries and international organizations wanted.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:56 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Trump was investigated for abusing the office of POTUS for personal gain.

If it is an abuse for Trump to try to investigate the Bidens for personal gain, then it is likewise an abuse for the Democrats to investigate Trump for personal gain.


InfraBlue wrote:
Biden was acting on behalf of the US government for an end that the government and other countries and international organizations wanted.

So it's OK to do it when it is for a goal that the left agrees with, but a horrible crime to do it when it is for a goal that the left dislikes?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2020 12:01 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
other countries and international organizations wanted.

Wanted his crackhead son to make millions and his brother to get a huge contract in Iraq?
 

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