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Supremes rule against medical marijuana

 
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:46 pm
Oh you mean those group of judges…sorry.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:46 pm
woiyo wrote:
Since we have little to argue, I find this quote interesting... "Our national medical system relies on proven scientific research, not popular opinion. To date, science and research have not determined that smoking marijuana is safe or effective," John Walters, director of National Drug Control Policy, said Monday. "

I agree it's an interesting quote, especially in the way it completely misses the point of individual liberty. I can decide for myself, on whatever basis suits my fancy, which substances I ingest. I don't need Mr. Walters to decide that for me, whether his basis be science, popular opinion, or astrology. Even if science shows that smoking marijuana is a mistake, it is my mistake to make, not his mistake to proscribe.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:52 pm
This seems to go against previous Supreme Court rulings saying states have the right to determine what is a legitimate medical practice.

In the physician assisted suicide cases that they have heard they have said (twice, I believe) that states do have the right to ban PAS which left the door open for states to pass PAS laws.

Oregon passed a PAS law which the 9th curcuit court upheld on the basis of the previous Supreme Court decisions. The Supremes declined to hear the case themselves even though it has been suggested that prescribing an overdose of barbituates is in opposition to federal law.

I'll have to dig around to be sure I'm right but I'm pretty certain that I am.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:54 pm
I'm just curious why tobacco is still legal.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:56 pm
Because the tobacco industry has lots of money and lots of pull.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 01:56 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I'm just curious why tobacco is still legal.

It won't be for long -- I guess a few states like Virginia will keep it legal, just like Nevada did with prostitution. But the others will either increasingly criminalize it or tax it to death.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 02:00 pm
They have already been taxing it to death - called sin tax.
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rodeman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 04:16 pm
God forbid we allow people to alleviate pain and suffering.............?? What the hell is wrong with "some" people in this country?

See you in Amsterdam..
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 04:36 pm
Re: Supremes rule against medical marijuana
Foxfyre wrote:

In the court's main decision, Stevens raised concerns about abuse of marijuana laws. "Our cases have taught us that there are some unscrupulous physicians who overprescribe when it is sufficiently profitable to do so," he said.


We probably should have Debra Law here to get a legal perspective on this.

I can think of a number of mood altering medications that meet Steven's stated fear, such as prozac, and they are still on sale.
Secondly it would seem to me that this a "States Rights" issue which this court has claimed to be so protective of.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 04:55 pm
It was interesting that it was three 'conservatives', O'Connor, Thomas, and Rehnquist, who were the three dissenting, all based on the principle of states rights. All 'liberal' members of the court voted to uphold the federal ban.

Oh and I didn't write that Acquiunk. It was in the AP piece.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 05:53 pm
The Commerce Clause is virtually the "Congress can do any damn thing it wants to do" Clause.

It is rare, indeed, for the Supreme Court to strike down congressional legislation on the ground that Congress exceeded its Commerce Clause powers.

Lopez case:

Quote:
The Act exceeds Congress' Commerce Clause authority. First, although this Court has upheld a wide variety of congressional Acts regulating intrastate economic activity that substantially affected interstate commerce, the possession of a gun in a local school zone is in no sense an economic activity that might, through repetition elsewhere, have such a substantial effect on interstate commerce. Section 922(q) is a criminal statute that by its terms has nothing to do with "commerce" or any sort of economic enterprise, however broadly those terms are defined. Nor is it an essential part of a larger regulation of economic activity, in which the regulatory scheme could be undercut unless the intrastate activity were regulated. It cannot, therefore, be sustained under the Court's cases upholding regulations of activities that arise out of or are connected with a commercial transaction, which viewed in the aggregate, substantially affects interstate commerce. Second, §922(q) contains no jurisdictional element which would ensure, through case by case inquiry, that the firearms possession in question has the requisite nexus with interstate commerce. Respondent was a local student at a local school; there is no indication that he had recently moved in interstate commerce, and there is no requirement that his possession of the firearm have any concrete tie to interstate commerce. To uphold the Government's contention that §922(q) is justified because firearms possession in a local school zone does indeed substantially affect interstate commerce would require this Court to pile inference upon inference in a manner that would bid fair to convert congressional Commerce Clause authority to a general police power of the sort held only by the States.


Case


After the Supreme Court decided Lopez, Congress amended the GFSZA to include the magic jurisdictional nexus language ("moves in or otherwise affects interstate commerce") and PRESTO! The UNCONSTITUTIONAL GFSZA was now constitutional and all the other concerns about converting congressional Commerce Clause authority into a general police power suddenly evaporated into thin air.


The Supreme Court has upheld our elected officials' extremely broad use of the Commerce Clause as a device to justify federal police powers. If "we the people" believe Congress is misusing its Commerce Clause powers, we must resort to the political process and request that Congress voluntarily limit its reach or we can amend the Constitution to better define and limit Congress's power to regulate commerce through the use of federal criminal laws.

But, I doubt that "we the people" will do anything to limit governmental power when most people see the government as the pancea for every perceived ill. "There ought to be a law," the people exclaim about everything and anything, and our elected officials are more than happy to answer the call for more and more laws.

Quote:
The Supremacy Clause unambiguously provides that if there is any conflict between federal and state law, federal law shall prevail. It is beyond peradventure that federal power over commerce is “ ‘superior to that of the States to provide for the welfare or necessities of their inhabitants,’ ” however legitimate or dire those necessities may be. Wirtz, 392 U.S., at 196 (quoting Sanitary Dist. of Chicago v. United States, 266 U.S. 405, 426 (1925)). See also 392 U.S., at 195—196; Wickard, 317 U.S., at 124 (“ ‘[N]o form of state activity can constitutionally thwart the regulatory power granted by the commerce clause to Congress’ ”). Just as state acquiescence to federal regulation cannot expand the bounds of the Commerce Clause, see, e.g., Morrison, 529 U.S., at 661—662 (Breyer, J., dissenting) (noting that 38 States requested federal intervention), so too state action cannot circumscribe Congress’ plenary commerce power. See United States v. Darby, 312 U.S. 100, 114 (1941) (“That power can neither be enlarged nor diminished by the exercise or non-exercise of state power”).


http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZO.html
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2005 11:51 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
The Supreme Court has upheld our elected officials' extremely broad use of the Commerce Clause as a device to justify federal police powers.

... and apply them to situations that are neither interstate nor commerce. I suppose "extremely broad use of" is lawyerese for "making nonsense of it, turning the plain and clear meaning of its words upside down"? Smile

Debra_Law wrote:
If "we the people" believe Congress is misusing its Commerce Clause powers, we must resort to the political process and request that Congress voluntarily limit its reach or we can amend the Constitution to better define and limit Congress's power to regulate commerce through the use of federal criminal laws.

But, I doubt that "we the people" will do anything to limit governmental power when most people see the government as the pancea for every perceived ill. "There ought to be a law," the people exclaim about everything and anything, and our elected officials are more than happy to answer the call for more and more laws.

Sad but true. Now I'm totally depressed, but thanks! I would also like to submit a cite I already posted to au1929's thread on this topic.

Justice Clarence Thomas, dissenting, wrote:
Respondents Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana. If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything--and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.

I

Respondents' local cultivation and consumption of marijuana is not "Commerce ... among the several States." U. S. Const., Art. I, §8, cl. 3. By holding that Congress may regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce under the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution's limits on federal power. The majority supports this conclusion by invoking, without explanation, the Necessary and Proper Clause. Regulating respondents' conduct, however, is not "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" Congress' restrictions on the interstate drug trade. Art. I, §8, cl. 18. Thus, neither the Commerce Clause nor the Necessary and Proper Clause grants Congress the power to regulate respondents' conduct.

May Thomas Jefferson's spirit bless Clarence Thomas for being the only one who stated the obvious!
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Scorpia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 11:26 am
I also find this quote interesting...
""Our national medical system relies on proven scientific research, not popular opinion. To date, science and research have not determined that smoking marijuana is safe or effective," John Walters, director of National Drug Control Policy, said Monday. "

Notice that he says "have not determined it safe or effective." Marijuana has been studied "at least" since the 1960's. They may not have determined it safe or effective, but they also cannot determine it unsafe or ineffective. After at least 45 years of research, it's time to let it go. Every other heart attack causing man-made drug is studied much less time and is approved quickly and then later recalled when proven unsafe and/or ineffective.

Since they cannot prove that marijuana is dangerous, they label it the "gateway" drug.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 11:46 am
Thomas wrote:


Justice Clarence Thomas, dissenting, wrote:

Respondents' local cultivation and consumption of marijuana is not "Commerce ... among the several States." U. S. Const., Art. I, §8, cl. 3. By holding that Congress may regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce under the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution's limits on federal power. The majority supports this conclusion by invoking, without explanation, the Necessary and Proper Clause. Regulating respondents' conduct, however, is not "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" Congress' restrictions on the interstate drug trade. Art. I, §8, cl. 18. Thus, neither the Commerce Clause nor the Necessary and Proper Clause grants Congress the power to regulate respondents' conduct.

May Thomas Jefferson's spirit bless Clarence Thomas for being the only one who stated the obvious!


I normally have little use for Clarence Thomas as a jurist, but this time IMHO he got it exactly right.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:44 pm
Quote:
Since they cannot prove that marijuana is dangerous, they label it the "gateway" drug.


Not a single reported case of overdose on THC, as far as I can tell.

Funny that pretty much EVERY other legal drug, from caffiene to Nicotene to Asprin can and will kill you when taken too much of; but Marijuana, better keep that illegal, yeah

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:48 pm
THC impairs judgement, reflex speed, memory and other systems in the body. That's why it is considered a drug.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:49 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You need a 'marijuana should be legal, period' option on the poll.

Cycloptichorn


That got my vote.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:50 pm
McGentrix wrote:
THC impairs judgement, reflex speed, memory and other systems in the body. That's why it is considered a drug.


So does alcohol and that's legal.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:53 pm
Quote:
THC impairs judgement, reflex speed, memory and other systems in the body. That's why it is considered a drug.


Um, what about that means it should be illegal?

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2005 12:53 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
THC impairs judgement, reflex speed, memory and other systems in the body. That's why it is considered a drug.


So does alcohol and that's legal.


That's why it should be banned along with tobacco.
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