Forgiveness is necessary and for that all you need is to repent sincerely to God. It is a direct relationship between you and your God. Concepts such as original sin and atonement are man made concepts and have nothing to do with mercy and forgiveness of God. These concepts go against God's very nature of forgiving, merciful and loving.
None of this makes any sense to a person who is sincere and looking for the truth.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the Bible. God being described as one, or a trinity, is not big deal when it is all encompassing - One can be a trinity. Christians are not 'associating' - they are saying they are the same parts of the whole. Further, even according to your own Islamic theory of abrogation, which attempts to explain away the huge discrepancies between peace and violence in the Quran, not everything needs to be revealed by God at once. So whether God was one, or a trinity from the start, should not be an issue to Muslims.
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
I understood Bible very well. Ibrahimic religion started with ONE God, not with Trinity. All prophets preached the same message which is God is One. Quran has been consistent through out in saying that God is One. It is new Bible which has contradictions about the very first commandment.
Only question I would ask is that did you read Quran at your own cover to cover? Or are you learning Quran through the websites who obviously have their own negative agenda against Islam and Muslims?
Yes. Though you apparently don't understand Christianity very well - if you ask them, the concept is nebulous, those that understand the theology believe they are one but also three.
Several chapters. Plus the life of mohammed through various sources, both Islamic & secular. Plus specific subjects. Plus books written by muslims. Plus the history of Islam as relates to Jihad / Jihadic expansion. Where I can, both sides.
I agree with you for most part and ask you to put your words in practice. Does it make sense for you to have God in trinity?
God does not change its nature. Yet Christians insists that God came down in human form. God is eternal, yet Christians insist that Jesus (supposedly God) died for our sins?
What about people who lived and died before Jesus? Did they believe in Jesus? Did God forgave people without atonement? Read your bible and you will see that God did forgave many people when they asked for forgiveness? Is it JUST for us to have original sin? Did Adam asked you and me before eating from forbidden tree? Is it JUST to punish someone else for someone else's sins? None of this makes any sense to a person who is sincere and looking for the truth.
I also posted story of Adam and Eve as described in Quran yesterday, link is below. Hope reading this would help you put few pieces in right places.
https://able2know.org/topic/211316-9#post-6901882
Lastly I respect that at least you worship the same God I do. I don't associate any partners with Allah. He is absolute one. He has no needs and He is neither begotten, nor begets and there is none like Him.
You do claim that you worship one God but in reality you do associate partners with God when you believe in Holy Spirit and in Jesus. God is One, not three in One.
If you are sincere read any translation of Quran at your own and compare that to Bible. I am sure you will find answer to many questions. I have read OT & NT and it has helped me to strengthen my faith in Islam.
That's is illogical; one is one and three is three. Three can't be one.
It connects people with God, the same way other Bible stories do.
Jesus died and resurrected, and ascended to heaven. Material bodies live and die, but the soul has eternal life. God created us in His image, but how do you reconcile God's eternal nature with death in the material form? Jesus and the Holy Trinity helps people realize God as such.
These stories teach us how sin evolved. Think of the story of Cain and Able. How could Cain have become envious of God's relationship with his brother except because the ability to understand sin was passed down to them.
Basically the story is showing how a good student can get jealous of a teacher's attention for bad students and then sin as a result. It's a natural progression from learning to negatively judge others who don't learn what you have learned, so it makes sense that such a sin can only emerge after someone has gained the ability to do right and thus regard someone else's failure to do right as worthy of judgment.
We are all subject to these sins because they are automatic byproducts of our human ability to think and apply reason and conscience to do right and respond to wrongdoing.
I don't think you can compare the Holy Trinity with polytheism. What's more, monotheism is really only in conflict with polytheism to the extent polytheism characterizes different powers of nature as being separate and in conflict with each other. Monotheism is the recognition that all power in the universe is in harmony, not conflict/separation. Holy Trinity doesn't imply any conflict or separateness between God the father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. They each reinforce the others as being harmonious parts of an interworking divinity.
What you are saying is like saying that a family cannot be unified as long as there is more than person in the family.
My favorite parts of the Quran deal with people who pretend to believe but don't fully believe. I see this as a major religious problem that I haven't heard much about in Christian literature I've read.
I also like that Islam directly promotes submission to God, since Christianity isn't quite so explicit about it when it reaches out to sinners with forgiveness/salvation. The idea is of course that once sinners experience the divine mercy of forgiveness and realize God's power to cleanse them of sin that they will fully submit to it, but Islam maybe reaches people a little more directly by asking them to simply recognize that there is one God and start submitting to His will.
No humans are perfect, however, so we shouldn't expect that everyone will get any religion completely right, whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or others. Sincere devotion leads in the right direction, but it's easy to make mistakes all along the way.
God is not the creation. God is unique and there is none like Him.
I know there are people who believe that everything is God. If you believe that, you are on the wrong track.
I connect with God on daily basis, it is a direct connect with my Lord and I don't need any intermediate person like Jesus or Holy Spirit.
Jesus died, your God died?
Jesus died for your sins already so what is purpose of your life?
You already believe in him and should be forgiven right? What on earth are you doing, you should already be in heaven....
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!
But people still sin, or is it because now they have got the license to do so because Jesus already died for the sins of everyone else.
Romans 6
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Absolutely not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?…
You forget to mention that there are also stories in Bible which tell that God forgave people who repented for their sins before Jesus and during the time Jesus was on earth. They did not have to believe in Jesus to be forgiven.
I know Christians love to use this example of a family and how family represents God head but family starts with wife. Who is wife in the Godhead? Families also have daughters, where are they in the Godhead.
Each person in family is an independent person not like three is one type Godhead. Or may be you are saying that each person in God head is also independent which means it is not one God but three....
These are good observations and thanks for acknowledging and sharing these. For me the most important think is absolute oneness of God in Quran and fundamentals of Islamic belief system are very clear in Quran. There is no ambiguity like I found in Bible. Using same Bible, people can argue that God is one and Jesus never claimed to be God and what is funny is that same Bible can also be used to claim Trinity.
Many of us compromise along the way by putting our consiousness to sleep. We start sinning so much that Allah puts seal on hearts. Once a heart is sealed, it can't be guided unless we truly repent from heart and ask God to guide us to the right path. Pray to one God that He guides you to the right path and keep praying that whenever you go to sleep and I assure you that God will lead you to the truth.
Please forgive anything hurtful I may have said. That definitely is not my intention and I love that at least you do believe in God.
That's is illogical; one is one and three is three. Three can't be one.
Thats very good to know. I would also advise to interact with practicing Muslims. Go to the mosque just to witness what they do and how they live their daily lives
1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger, nor of those who went astray. ( Quran, Chapter 1)
You aren't dealing with a number, but the concept of being. If a being is omnipotent and omnipresent, then it is in everything and everyone. Ie. it is a part of everything and everyone. So 1000 can be part of 1. One million can be part of one. And the reverse must also be able to be true.
I actually wouldn't mind knowing some Muslims - but have never lived in area with any obvious percentage of them, nor worked with one. I am generally very curious about everyone's beliefs. I wouldn't go to mosques, as I also turn down invitations to attend churches - while I'm curious about peoples beliefs, I find the practice of religion to be too rigid when it comes to questioning things - it appears to me that most tend to start with an end point, and then try to make their answer fit it. My by far preferred method is to find patterns in life that hold true, and only after identifying patterns, arrive at a conclusion - knowing yet still that it is unlikely to be a perfect conclusion.
Omnipresent and Omnipotent means that God is most powerful and He is present everywhere. That is nothing is hidden from Him. This does not mean that everything and everyone is God
God is also eternal and knows everything. Jesus PBUH was not eternal, he was born and he died. Jesus PBUH did not have absolute knowledge of everything, how Jesus can be God when he is limited and in not eternal.
There is plenty of Christian debate on 'what is God / what constitutes God'. The concept of the trinity is even debated, but generally agreed upon. Try and tie one down on what the Holy Spirit is, and you'll generally get what I consider to be confused answers.
Do you remember what I said about starting with an ending and then making your logic fit the ending? Both yourself, and Christianity could be accused of doing so here. You are looking at the question from the purely negative endpoint, and making your 'logic' fit it. There are possible answers to this question. Both spectrums of response are wrapped up in other questions related to what is God (from both Sides)
As a note, I use 'logic' with ' ' because there is no perfect logic in this discussion - only theology. As a further note - the theology doesn't particularly interest me, curiosity aside, and the bemusing matter of both sides thinking they are right.
I have seen several debates on concept of Trinity and have not found a single one yet which is simple enough to believe. For me this is fundamental belief and if God of Ibrahim and Moses was one without Holy Spirit and Jesus then Why would Christian God change its nature. Jesus PBUH himself was praying and it is quoted several times in Bible. Who was he praying to if he himself was God.
I am not sure how can you conclude that. I did not have any ending in my mind when I wrote my previous post.
When we talk about God whom no one is seen, it is not possible for human beings to describe God. We only know what God has told us about Himself. God has told some of His attributes to us in Quran. Please have a look at these and this will help to understand God. A link below has very good description of the attributes of God.
