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Can Atheists learn to speak Theist?

 
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Oct, 2019 12:08 pm
@izzythepush,
Muslims believe in Jesus PBUH's Virgin birth because Quran testifies this fact. In fact in Quran there is an entire Chapter dedicated to Mary (Chapter 19). I will quote few verses from it:

Quote:
And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."
He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."
She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"
He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "
So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "
Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive.
And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.[Quran 19:16-34]


Also note there is no description in entire Bible how Mary defended having a baby without any interaction with a man. In Jewish law, she should have been stoned to death. But still there is no explanation in Bible how Mary got away with having a Virgin birth.
Quran on the other hand, mentioned that Allah gave power to Jesus PBUH to speak when he was still a newborn and that's how he defended his mother. This story of Jesus speaking when he was still a baby is not in Bible either.

Quran does not leave any space for doubts. It states clearly that Jesus PBUH is son of Mary. This is to deny that Jesus is not son of God. Quran also does not use term son for his true believers as Bible does because it leads us to where Christianity is today. Bible has called so many prophets son of god and then they discovered a separate term for Jesus as begotten son even though in Hebrew the word for son and begotten son are same. Quran does not call god the father either for the same reasons.

Regarding Joseph husband of Mary per Biblical accounts, there is no mention of him in Quran or hadith. So I can't say if he was actually married to Mary or if this is something invented by Christians to defend their false ideology.

Sorry if this hurt feelings of any Christian brothers and sisters. I am just stating facts from my POV.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 12:59 am
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:
Also note there is no description in entire Bible how Mary defended having a baby without any interaction with a man. In Jewish law, she should have been stoned to death.


People get away with breaking the law all the time. Sometimes they're just not caught, sometimes the authorities turn a blind eye.

Jack the Ripper was never punished for murdering all those women, it doesn't follow it was because he had divine help.

Btw, the Mabinogion has Merlin speaking from the cradle and "comforting" his mother with the news his father had been a demon.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 10:00 am
@izzythepush,
Jesus PBUH had a miraculous birth, he was born without biological father and it is confirmed both by Bible and Quran and believed by almost 50% of world population. I think that was probably your main question.

Regarding why Mary (peace be upon her) got away, is explained in Quran. Bible did not say anything on it and one can make as many assumptions as they want.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 10:40 am
@HabibUrrehman,
The Bible is wrong on quite a few things. Luke shoehorned lots of stuff in to fit with earlier prophecies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 10:57 am
@izzythepush,
I understand, I have read Bible at my own. I think it holds a bit of truth but one can also easily see that the message has been corrupted. Had it been from God, there would not be so many contradictions.

Regarding prophecies, Christians will interpret Bible in every possible way to make sure the prophecy is about Jesus PBUH. Some say that more than 300 Prophecies were met in just a single day when Jesus PBUH was crucified.

It is funny that they believe in Jesus as son of God but genealogy tells us otherwise. We have two genealogies of Jesus and both are very different. None of them have God as Jesus's father. Why because they need to prove that Jesus is descendant of David PBUH to prove the prophecy in OT is fulfilled.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 11:37 am
@HabibUrrehman,
I think they're all a bit dubious. What you said about Jesus being born of a virgin yet not being divine sounds political.

Christianity was the largest Abrahamic grouping at the time, the real enemy were the Pagans in Mecca and they didn't want to alienate the Christians.

What you've got looks like a political fudge, very man made.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 11:55 am
@izzythepush,
Adam PBUH was born without father and mother, what would you make of him if Jesus is God?

If anyone would create a new religion to undermine Christianity, it would be Jews not tha pagans. Pagans have no understanding of a monotheistic belief system.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 12:26 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Adam is a construct. Early man evolved from other hominids, there was no Garden of Eden, it was a myth.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 12:30 pm
@izzythepush,
Knowledge is of two types. One which we learn through science, observations and experiments. Second is the revealed. Not all revealed knowledge can be verified with science. I know it is a myth for non-believers. But it is not a myth for Jews, Christians and Muslims. It is part of our belief in revealed knowledge.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 12:42 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Not all Muslims, Christians and Jews, many of them accept evolution as a fact.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Oct, 2019 01:18 pm
@izzythepush,
Islam has no problem with evolution. As for as Adam is concerned it is very clearly stated in Torah, NT and Quran that Adam was created by God.

Now is it possible that there were other species on earth who evolved from monkeys and looked like human? It may be because Quran is quite on this topic. I try not to conclude anything from things which are ambiguous.

Do humans evolve over time? Yes they do. Our brain and thinking is evolving. People few centuries ago were not as educated in science as we are. Early humans used to be more gigantic compared to us because they had to survive in a different environment than ours.

As I said, Islam does not agree 100% with what advocates of evolution say but it does agree with most part. Islam has no problem in accepting evolution as long as we believe that evolution is not a random process but it is done by God.
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