DEEP THROAT

But again, that just sounds like wishful thinking on your part DTom. If there was anything to charge GWB with, do you honestly think the Dems would not have done that? Those of you who despise the man think everything he does is shady, dishonest, or illegal. I don't know of anybody, including people you would think were the 'far Christian right' who think he is perfect. People like me see a lot to criticize and be frustrated about, but we don't see this looming evil person bent on destroying America as we know it that many on the Left seem to see.

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Foxfyre wrote:

But again, that just sounds like wishful thinking on your part DTom. If there was anything to charge GWB with, do you honestly think the Dems would not have done that? Those of you who despise the man think everything he does is shady, dishonest, or illegal. I don't know of anybody, including people you would think were the 'far Christian right' who think he is perfect. People like me see a lot to criticize and be frustrated about, but we don't see this looming evil person bent on destroying America as we know it that many on the Left seem to see.

i don't really think that in the long run that, if and when, things catch up with his administration, it will be a purely partisan effort. every day i talk with more people (that voted for him )who are really wondering when the "vision" is going to kick in. they feel that what is said and what happens hasn't really been jiving. he also hasn't carried forward with a lot of republican basics, such as fiscal conservation. for myself, if things were happening as promised, there wouldn't be the repeated statement that "this is a president who says what he means and does what he says". if all was well in river city, people would know that without needing to be reminded, wouldn't they ?

btw, i don't despise bush. don't like him much either. there are things that are happening with his facilitation that i do despise, but those things are partially due to hysteria and others are a passing fad in the scheme of things.

so okay, yep, i view bush with an admittedly jaundiced eye. but i wouldn't like him much if he was simply my next door neighbor either. if i take away that bias, there's really nothing left for me to view him on except his policies, and i think he's wrong in his thinking and direction.

that's what makes a horse race. Cool

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It was McGentrix who brought Clinton into this, not any of the liberal side.
So the point about you guys falling back on "Well yeah what about Bill? sticks.
==
Back when they, meaning the Supreme Court, were still trying to figure out a way to give the election to George without embarrassing themselves (they failed*) I was at a cocktail party and I had had one too many, so when someone asked me what I thought would happen if George Bush became President I answered that I thought the Democrats would search the archives for anyone who had ever had a dispute with George over an oil lease or a landman deal or mineral rights or access rights or equipment purchase or leasing arrangements (I know the oil and gas business, it's complicated) and once they found six or seven folks with a good gripe, they would sue the pants off of him, now that we knew that a sitting President could be sued.

If we could have an Independent Consul look into an Arkansas land deal for six years, we sure as hell could find a bunch of Texas land deals to squab over and, I continued as the frozen faces of the Republicans in the room went stonier, maybe we should have a second and third look at how in the heck that boy got ahold of a both a slot in the National Guard and picked up the Texas Rangers for a song in the same lifetime.

I said, I'll bet there are some folks out there who weren't treated so good by George when he was that sullen drunk loudmouth brat of a man he was for so many years, they may be a discrimination suit or two in that or a civil rights violation, we'll just have to wait and see, but yeah I said, now that we know we can do it, we can get an Independent Prosecutor to look through every piece of paper the man had touched since he was a high school senior just to see what's there.

And why not, I asked the assembled crowd, why not subject the holder of the Presidency to the same scrutiny endured by Bill Clinton? What's good for the goose being good for the gander and all...

Then I answered my own question: I said -- because that kind of behavior is the Conservative Republican right wing no holds barred in the quest for power way of doing things, and it is undemocratic with both a small d and and a capital D and, in the long run, unAmerican with a very large U for U S A.

Joe(Really, the saddest chapter in American Jurisprudence )Nation

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Joe Nation writes

Quote:

It was McGentrix who brought Clinton into this, not any of the liberal side.
So the point about you guys falling back on "Well yeah what about Bill? sticks.

McG posted a cartoon re Deep Throat and Linda Tripp illustrating the double standard applied to whistle blowers. Then YOUR side decided to make it an issue of Clinton's blow job, not us. So nothing sticks other than the left's attempt, again, to show that Clinton's only crime was a blow job and nothing he did was anywhere comparable to anything and everything done by those on the right.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Joe Nation writes

Quote:
It was McGentrix who brought Clinton into this, not any of the liberal side.
So the point about you guys falling back on "Well yeah what about Bill? sticks.

McG posted a cartoon re Deep Throat and Linda Tripp illustrating the double standard applied to whistle blowers. Then YOUR side decided to make it an issue of Clinton's blow job, not us. So nothing sticks other than the left's attempt, again, to show that Clinton's only crime was a blow job and nothing he did was anywhere comparable to anything and everything done by those on the right.

Um, what other tip could the cartoonist have meant Trip was "deep sixed" for? Rolling Eyes

Seriously, curious princesses want to know... Smile

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She was considered a pariah for taping a friend's reports of an affair with the President of the United States. That made her contemptible to most people who would not want a Linda Tripp for a friend.

But many also consider Felt contemptable for betraying the trust placed in him by his high status in the FBI and would not want a Felt for either a friend or a coworker.

Both were whistle blowers. One provided information to a lawfully appointed special counsel as it was pertinent to the investigation in process. The other secretly provided information to media contacts.

Both were of interest because the information they provided to others revealed inappropriate use of power, obstruction of justice, and lies unacceptable for a President or any other person elected to high office.

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foxfrye wrote

Quote:

Both were of interest because the information they provided to others revealed inappropriate use of power, obstruction of justice, and lies unacceptable for a President or any other person elected to high office.

http://www.time.com/time/daily/scandal/tripp/tripp1.html

excerpt from the oh so important tapes of Linda Tripp that exposed those so unacceptable lies that were comparable to Nixon"s lies.

Quote:

LEWINSKY: ... We were sitting right near the entrance and so he kind of came in and so I said "Ambassador Richardson, Monica Lewinsky." He said, "Oh, hi. How are you?" And, I introduced him to my mom and to Peter and then he said something or another and said "Well, we're just waiting for you. The ball's in your court."

TRIPP: Unreal.

LEWINSKY: "I want to hire you."

TRIPP: I don't believe this. Where were you at dinner?

LEWINSKY: We went to 21.

TRIPP: Yeah? Who was he there with?

LEWINSKY: His wife.

TRIPP: Is that not the most bizarre thing?

LEWINSKY: It was so weird. It was really weird. Like really weird.

TRIPP: ... Do you - when you're up there, though, do you feel like you're gonna enjoy living there?

LEWINSKY: ... I just kind of feel like - I feel really cheated, you know. ... And I said I feel like I'm moving to New York and - because I have to, but it's not what I would be doing by choice. ...

LEWINSKY: ... She (Lewinsky's mother) said, ... "Monica, if you went back there, let alone that all these people are nasty and they're venomous. She goes, "You would just - be just as miserable as you are now.' You know, she was like, "He would never see you enough. It would never be enough.' ...

... and there is some truth to that because ... I was upset, when I worked there about him. ...

... I was constantly, constantly thinking he forgot who I was. ...

TRIPP: Well, how could he have forgotten who you were when you were seeing him?

LEWINSKY: ... I was crazy, Linda. I mean, it seems to me that it was like if I didn't see him, then he forgot who I was. ...

... And if he didn't call, he forgot who I was.

... I don't know if you know this or not or ever realized it, but - you know, I got over (REDACTED) with the creep. ...

... Right before this had happened, right before this started with the creep, I had gone to Portland in the end of October. ... And I had not seen Andy since July, and I had gone there pretty much to see my friends and to see him. ...

... and then we did end up getting together, but it wasn't that great. And then - I was there about a week. And so then I went to see him again and we were supposed to fool around, and he like pulled all this (REDACTED) on me. He didn't want to do this anymore, he couldn't do it, he couldn't do it. And I ... was like hysterically crying.

TRIPP: Mm-hmm.

LEWINSKY: So I was - hated his guts, you know? Came back from Portland and ... got my hair done, and ... like a week and half later was when this whole thing started.

TRIPP: A week and a half later is when what started?

LEWINSKY: The stuff with the creep. ...

LEWINSKY: It was like shifting my focus, and so it was, it was so, like important, for me to get over Andy. I mean, it was just funny, he was the vehicle for it, you know?

TRIPP: Mm-hmm.

LEWINSKY: But - so- that contributed a little, I think, to - to my-

TRIPP: Yeah.

LEWINSKY: - whatever with him, you know. And I really - I really felt like, oh, there's a different girl every day and he was gonna forget. You know, I mean, when this first happened, I mean, I said to my mom, I said, "Well, I think he just fooled around with me because his girlfriend was probably furloughed."

TRIPP: You idiot.

LEWINSKY: I'm not kidding you. That's what I thought.

TRIPP: Oh, my God. Monica -

LEWINSKY: So, I don't know. It's just- you know, and she's right. She's right. It would be - I mean, I would get to see him more. I think I'd have more time with him.

TRIPP: I read that he spent the night at, um- or was it on the news today - at Steven Spielberg's partner's house? Castlebaum or Castleman or something.

LEWINSKY: Oh, really?

TRIPP: In L.A.

LEWINSKY: Huh.

TRIPP: I don't know. I don't know who that is. I don't know anything about him. One of the Dreamworks people.

LEWINSKY: Yeah. Well, you know what's funny is this is - I don't know which came - well I'm sure the plans for him to stay there came before, but, you know, about a week ago, there was this thing in The New York Post saying that, um, they had offered him to be a partner in Dreamworks when he becomes ex-president and that they had already staked out this land and had - have already bought him a house out there.

TRIPP: You're kidding.

LEWINSKY: No. Isn't that funny? So, I mean, I don't know. I think what makes more sense is someone got wind that he was gonna stay there, because I'm sure those plans were made before -

TRIPP: Right.

LEWINSKY: You know -

TRIPP: There's always leaks.

...LEWINSKY: I got - oh - oh - and I bought a beautiful, beautiful, rad red very thin silk sweater top.

TRIPP: Ooh.

LEWINSKY: That - it's for my next visit - if I ever have one again.

TRIPP: You in red. Yes.

LEWINSKY: Which I think I will. I think eventually I'll have to, right?

TRIPP: Yeah.

LEWINSKY: I have to give him his Christmas present.

TRIPP: Yeah.

LEWINSKY: It probably won't be for forever, but -

TRIPP: Just because you wear a red sweater does not mean you have to wear red lipstick.

LEWINSKY: I understand that.

TRIPP: Okay. I'm just trying to-

LEWINSKY: I wouldn't ever wear red lipstick to see him.

TRIPP: Good.

...TRIPP: Well, you may have reason to call because you may end up -um- hearing something from Vernon.

LEWINSKY: And so what? So what do I need to say? Well, just I took something, or what?

TRIPP: Well, no. You're gonna discuss it with him, aren't you?

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"SCLM, call holding, line 2..."

Quote:

"If there's another Deep Throat out there, give us a call, won't you. We're waiting for your call."

-- Tim Russert and Tom Brokaw, at the end of their discussion of "Deep Throat", aka W. Mark Felt, earlier this week.

Well fellas, (s)he got tired of waiting for you to pick up the phone and hung up.

I think it was Richard Clarke, but it may have been Sibel Edmonds. It could have been Karen Kwiatkowski, or maybe Coleen Rowley. Or Paul O'Neill or even Joe Wilson. It might have been Gen. Eric Shinseki; I guess it could have even been John DiIulio, but if it was him, he sounded like he was already changing his mind even as I was putting him on hold.

Pick up your pages a little quicker in the future, guys.

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Quote:

Paul Revere A Despicable Tattletale, Says GOP

Republicans today criticized Paul Revere for his famous ride, saying that he had violated professional colonial ethics by divulging military secrets in violation of his duty to his lord, the King of England.

"These were sensitive informations about military troop movements with which he had been entrusted," said G. Gordon Liddy, an expert on ethics in government and a professor at several unaccredited law schools.

"Paul Revere was a traitor and a law breaker," said Anakin Skywalker in a confidential interview shortly before his limbs were lopped off and he burst into flame.

Conservatives all over America pointed out that Revere also endangered people's lives by riding willy-nilly all over Massachusetts at a full gallop in the dark of night. "He could have trampled someone," said Bill O'Reilly. "Paul Revere was a reckless and irresponsible Nazi," he added.

Pat Buchanan derided Revere as a "coward" and a "snake" who was unwilling to be direct with the British government regarding his complaints about the monarchy. "There were channels," he said.

Peggy Noonan shook her head. "There's nothing sadder than Americans who have no respect for the rule of law," she said.

Opinions You Should Have

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Cokie Roberts, this morning, made the observation that all motivations were suspect. Wise Cokie.

Felt was a minion of J Edgar Hoover, and made it to #2 in the FBI under the cross dressing, blackmailing J Edgar.

Who is about to tell us that Felt cleansed himself of all of his sins by squealing in an underground parking lot to a Washinton Post reporter?

The Press would have us believe that the Washington Post was Jack the Giant Killer when it came to Nixon.

True enough that the entire affair might have slipped by without the Washington Post, and it is foolish to suggest that Nixon would have been caught without Woodward and Bernstein, however it is equally foolish to suggest that the Washington Post was anything but a part of the product.

Everything that happened to Nixon was good for the country, and so, ultimately, who cares about the moral fibre of the folks who brought him down?

I don't, but I have a difficulty with casting Felt as some sort of hero.

John Dean flipped, is he a hero?

The process was the hero, and the players were caught up in the flood of our proud and wonderful governance.

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Yes, John Dean is a hero as far as whistle blowers ae concerned. Certainly leagues ahead of Linda Tripp and probably Felt.

Trying to characterize Linda Tripp as a hero requires a really fertile imagination.

I don't believe in the beginning and likely most of the way through the leaks to Woodward and Bernstein (I had to laugh characterizing this as "squealing," a term used in criminal circles where the squeler was a participant in their crimes) that Felt believed he would do as much good as reporting to the grand jury. He may have believed he would be able to learn more by keeping his identity secret. He may have been right or he may have been wrong -- hindsight can almost always be 20/20.

No matter how Nixon was brought down, I for one would not want to change history -- it was a fascinating time if not a further rude awakening to the machinations of politics.

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Quote:

John Dean flipped, is he a hero?

John Dean did not flip, he was the worst hire in the history of the Nixon White House because in the midst of the Halderman/Erlichman, Mitchell et al sycophants, he was an honest man. What would it be like to tell the occupant of the office that there was a cancer growing on the Presidency?
If Dean had said it to you, would that have gotten your attention? It did mine.

Felt did not flip, he got out the information that saved the Republic. Is that overstating the case? I don't think so.

Both men had taken an oath, but it was not one of allegiance to the President, it was an oath to uphold the Constitution.

To compare either man and their actions and motives to the pathetic idealogue Linda Tripp is a disgraceful slur against those two loyal Americans. Uphold the Constitution? She was not trying to uphold anything, not even her sham friendship with Monica. She and the rest of the right wing of the Republican Party were, and are, intent on ruling this country and were, and are, willing to do whatever it takes to acquire power.

Please don't waste any bandwidth denying it.

Joe(Some friendships are based on honesty)Nation

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George Mitchell eventually turned on his big mouth wife Martha.

I believe John Dean dumped his blonde wife Maureen.

What a slimy crew.

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No, Dean did not "dump" his wife Maureen and, in fact, she wrote a book on Watergate.

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Even if he did, I don't see what difference it makes in regards to Watergate.

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It wouldn't -- Dean knew he was likely to draw some prison time and although he didn't have the policy of "the buck stops here" (in other words, as soon as he was drawn into the cover-up scheme, he didn't elect to say no). His was a lone testimony -- whether the cancer on the Presidency would have ever been discovered and without Deep Throat is really debatable. I don't think Felt knew enough to give the grand jury ammunition at the time but that will all come out. He did know enough to steer Woodward and Bernstein in the right direction. Whether he is a hero or not will be decided by history, not by his family. Whether or not it has actually provided a good lesson or encouraged politicians to do a better job in covering their tracks is also debatable.

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revel wrote:

Even if he did, I don't see what difference it makes in regards to Watergate.

it makes none at all, revel. just more of the same; don't like the guy's politics, slime his ethics, morality, patriotism etc.

so how's life in the sticks, briar ? ya alright ? Smile

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As the end of the limirick goes, "They'd argue all night as to who had the right to do what, and with which, and to whom."

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

revel wrote:
Even if he did, I don't see what difference it makes in regards to Watergate.

it makes none at all, revel. just more of the same; don't like the guy's politics, slime his ethics, morality, patriotism etc.

so how's life in the sticks, briar ? ya alright ?

hot

but we're all fine.

about the right's politics, ain't it getting just old not to mention obvious.

worse part about it is that they always seem to come up on top in the end no matter what get thrown at them since we don't have any deep throats nowadays.

foxfrye mentioned as to how if bush did anything the democrats would have already had him before a hearing. (or some words to around that effect) i thought to myself, just how are we supposed to do that with republicans in the majority in both the house and senate? why say such an inane thing?

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The lesson of Deep Throat and Nixon is simple: It only takes one person of honor to sunder an army of dishonorables. That is what keeps tyrants up at night, who, who will it be, when will they expose us?

I am that person if need be. And so are you.

Joe( yes. You.)Nation

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