On Illegal Immigration; Right or Wrong

ebrown_p
I agree with you. However, is that reality or wishful thinking? When politicians speak about the Hispanic vote they are well aware that people vote all too often based ethnicity.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

MA, We already do that with our imports from China.

Yeah, well, I wasn't singling out the Mexicans. We do that with all our illegal "imports." The exploitation of undocumented Chinese goes back to the 19th Century. Indentured servitude was practiced gleefully, despite the 13th Amendment.

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In an ideal world, race should not have any meaning at all. The fact of the matter is, racial profiling happens in this country all the time whether we approve or not. On that simple basis, it has merit. If I was a Latino voter, I'd probably vote with the majority of my Latino brothers and sisters. Nothing wrong with that! You probably hadn't noticed what's happened during the past several years under Bush; he is using religion to promote his legislative agenda. If the majority votes to approve his agenda, we must all accept it because it's a 'democracy' and the majority vote rules. Majority has meaning in this country whether you wish to accept that as a non-issue.

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Setanta wrote:

rayban1 wrote:
I'm not too quick to condemn "those nasty, greedy capitalists", either. Many of whom are farmers and small businessmen who struggle daily trying to meet their payroll,and pay the myriad of city, state and federal taxes required to just keep their doors open one more day.

Obviously there are many here who smirk at the American dream but who are either too goddamned lazy or terrified to try it themselves.

A gratuitous sneer of the type for which you are becoming famous. It is, of course, based upon a set of assumptions for which you have no basis. I did not use the terms nasty or greedy, putting your use of the terms in quotation marks suggests that i had done. All this does is emphasis your self-imposed ignorance, in the service of your partisan rhetoric. A pathetic performance altogether--and we expect no less of you.

You will notice that I did not address my response to you directly but you couldn't wait to jump clear out of the water like a starving shark. Laughing

I have a long way go before I take over your well earned title as the sneering champ of A2K. Now I see you are aiming for an even highter title ....... that of who can hurl the most insults in two sentences......hello champ.

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Notice to all.....I'll be out of town for a couple of days. Don't waste your insults on anyone else now......I collect them like the mountain men used to collect beaver pelts. They are evidence that most of you have no sense humor and further evidence that you can really dish it out but you can't take it without resorting to ad hominems.

Have a great day slapping each other on the back.

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Don't hurry back, we've puerile hate-slingers aplenty here . . . you won't be missed . . .

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Disagreements needn't turn into insults or ad-hominems. It's an interesting topic on which I would like to hear of other's opinions - both pro and con. Politics on the face of it is full of disagreements; that's a given.

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Cicerone,

This thread is not set up to ask a reasonable question. I don't think there is anyone here who supports illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration leads to the difficulties that everyone knows is bad. The labor problems.. the exploitation of workers.. people trapped in povery and racial tensions.

The question that needs to be asked is the underlying question to all of these discussions.

How do we solve the problems of illegal immigration?

Any solution that will have my support (and my vote) needs to treat people, including immigrants, with dignity and respect.

The point of view represented by this particular politician is one that I strongly oppose. It is harsh and it necessarily divides America. I will speak out against it, and vote against it, every chance I get.

There are proposals that would make immigration law more reasonalbe, more enforceable and more humane that I would support.

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ebrown, What you say is true; however, it's the inaction of our politicians that have created these issues. We also can't blame all of it on our politicians, if we the voters don't demand that something get done on illegal immigration. Our country seems better suited to make issues of one brain-dead woman more important than many issues that are of greater importance to all of us. I'm not sure where the answer is, because there are as many who are for illegal immigration as there are against.

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I agree 100% with 100% of ebrown's post.

Especially this part:

"Any solution that will have my support (and my vote) needs to treat people, including immigrants, with dignity and respect."

I believe the greatest majority (especially of the Mexicans) are leaving their homeland in search of a better life for themselves and their families (at great peril to themselves, I might add).

They deserve nothing less than to be treated with dignity and respect in light of this.

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If a poor man robs a bank to make a better life for himself and his family is that acceptable?

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au has a leading question that is bound to be treated with disdain by the questioner. Wink

But, alas, is there a difference between illegal immigration and robbing a bank?

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C.I.
But both are illegal and should be treated as such. Being a little illegal is like being a little pregnant.

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au, I understand where you're coming from, but not everybody sees this comparison in the same light you do. That's the problem and the issue.

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au1929 wrote:

Employing illegal aliens is not the answer. Employment offices should be setup at the border. Where immigrent workers could be matched up with available jobs.

This matching of workers with jobs is not quite as good as it sounds. It still ties the worker too closely to the employer. From the employee standpoint, loss of employment might equate to deportation. From the standpoint of the employer I work for, we simply don't know days or months ahead of time when we are going to need replacements. Also, one warm body is not the same as another. Those oilfield jobs are not as unskilled as some might think.

We need to get workers approved for entry long before the get to the border, and the process shouldn't take months to complete. There should be checks on work visas as well as student visas. Workers should hold jobs with no more than normal periods of unemployment. Students should be attending the courses they've been approved for.

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Personally I find the "concept" of illegal immigration arbitrary and capricious without merit in other than legalistic terms. I do believe that in the long run such antiquated concepts will give way to acknowledgement of global allocation of resouces by need rather than "nationality" workers will go to places where workers are needed and way from places where they are not needed. Way rad uh? Colour of skin will diminish as criteron.

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dys, I also think you are correct. Another aspect for the diminished criterion of skin color is the rate of cultural inter-marriage. I've seen it first hand in our famiily; more than half our children are married to other than with a Japanese background. Having said that, we are still the smallest minority of Asians in America. We used to be number two behind the Chinese, but that was many decades ago.

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Also, it is simplistic to say that illegal immigrants have a free ride to public services. They pay local and state taxes by way of rent, to which a landlord adds local property taxes, and sales taxes among others.

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Yes, yes, au, illegal immigration and bank robbery are both illegal. I don't think anyone here is arguing that illegal immigration is not illegal. The question you beg is that are they both illigal activities of the same order, and should they be treated as such?

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InfraBlue
Neither should be condoned or excused. If the need is for labor to take jobs that Americans will not take. which ofttimes is not true. Than a legal method to recruit that labor can and should be devised. Never, should there be an instance when indiscriminate illegal entry into the US be justified and allowed.

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