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Sun 22 May, 2005 12:18 pm
SO and I are expecting this September and planning to get married next summer in Germany, taking 5 minor kids w/us, staying for about a month. We'll be staying as guests of some friends of his who came here for a month, who have a very large old farm house, and don't mind hosting us w/5 kids along who will range in age from baby to 15. The man speaks english fluently, the woman about as well as my german (which is rudementary, I guess, w/a heavy accent to decipher.) While there, we will be camping in northern Italy, seeing greater Germany and possibly parts of Austria, staying in a hotel in Paris for a little bit (but probably something modestly priced) but to cut costs, staying w/these very kind people most of the time.
Ok, told that to my 3 kids. My kids aren't big on camping, so both girls complained that we wouldn't be in hotels the whole time. Daughter(14) stopped short of saying she simply wouldn't go, if that were the arrangement; daughter(7) was apprehensive and said she would rather NOT GO TO EUROPE than camp at all. D14 suggested she stay w/a 24 year old we know who also lives in Germany. We'll probably see her, too, while there, but dd14 doesn't get to decide where to stay while on a family vacation, kwim? I'm trying to gently convince them that we know what is best for all of us, that going all together is supposed to be fun- that complaints ought to be limited to real issues, not artificially created ones, that such a trip is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us, and you don't kick a gift horse in the teeth...
Wwyd to get everyone to stay on board for such an event? How do you allay apprehension? How much do you stress learning the languages there? The little kids know some german words (future step son 7 is bilingual.) D14 signed up for spanish as her foreign language for 9th grade; should I be trying to convince her to switch to french- SINCE SHE'LL BE IN PARIS NEXT SUMMER- or leave her in the language she chose b/c she thought it would be easier to learn between the 2? The 24 year old repeatedly reassured us all when she was here nearly everyone speaks some english in Germany, but imnsho it's UGLY to go off to a country and expect them to understand you w/out you making any effort at all to understand them, kwim? D7 has the greatest aptitude for learning languages of my 3 kids (she's been my vocabulary partner while I study my flashcards.) Son(5) has the most confidence this will be a fun trip to take, but less interest in learning words (knows nouns for words he likes, please and thank you, hello and goodbye.) How much say-so would you give them? I'm not inclined to give them the option of staying at the farm house and skipping camping in Italy, kwim? or, reversely, would you expect them to stay w/repsonsible friends so you and your groom could go be alone for a night in a city being adults- have a real honeymoon night? The baby will be about 9 months old at the time we go, I was sort of thinking s/he would be on the tit and not left behind anywhere, so don't mind having all along then, but would you leave a baby for one night- if it were eating solid food and you pumped? An actual honeymoon in Europe, even if only for one night might be quite romantic- if it doesn't give me mastitis... wwyd and how would you handle the kids issues/demands, etc?
WHY are you taking children with you on a honeymoon? - and WHY are you staying with other people?
sorry - just can't get past that.
why don't you just take your parents along too? and your laptop so you can catch up on work during your spare time?
wean the 9 month old by that time and go off with your husband to Europe and travel alone and have really loud sex all the time.
Those kids will be scared for life going off with adults who just got married.
Even I knew that Gilbert.
Hi, princesspupule, nice to see you back.
I don't have any useful advice, though I tend to agree with you that you choose what the family does, including camping (I have a slight bias, I love italy). And yes, it seems to me at least one overnighter as a honeymood couple in a hotel of your choice seems a good thing...
edit - "honeymood" couple... I am going to leave that typo, I like it.
<I'm still marvelling at the idea of having enough money to travel with a family in Europe for a month. Just the cost of bottled water for a month would put me off.>
I do know that camping in Europe is quite different from the Canadian/American experience. Not quite as free-wheeling as we're used to. A cousin-by-marriage from Germany joined me and a few friends on a camping trip some years ago. She couldn't get over the fact that there were no washroom attendants, no laundry facilities, no streetlights !, that we cooked on a propane stove instead of going out to a proper restaurant to eat ... Just as she found our type of camping "just not for me", I suspect the reciprocal would be true.
Mulling. That's quite an age range of people to satisfy on one trip.
Do they all HAVE to go?
gahhhhhhhhh........
If europe doesn't work out, go to 6 flags - you get $2.00 off admission with an empty coke can.
ossobuco wrote:Hi, princesspupule, nice to see you back.
I don't have any useful advice, though I tend to agree with you that you choose what the family does, including camping (I have a slight bias, I love italy). And yes, it seems to me at least one overnighter as a honeymood couple in a hotel of your choice seems a good thing...
Hi thanks for the warm welcome back. Which parts of Italy do you like best? We're planning on taking everyone down to Venice... figure a couple days camping either way from Stuttgart to there, a couple days in Venice... Any thoughts on nice areas to stop in for the night? Or things worth stopping to see? I'm possibly the 2nd driver, which sounds just dreadful! I wasn't aware *I* would have to be doing any of the driving; I thought I would be strictly the passenger! The hardest place I've ever driven was up and down the Pacific coast... San Francisco and Seattle being the most difficult to get around in... Besides that, it's only been the islands for me (got my license driving around a couple blocks in Hilo, Hawaii...) I've driven a few times in Honolulu traffic, which isn't so bad b/c you get to drive slow... I'm scared of the Autobahn, not thrilled at heavy city traffic, definitely apprehensive about driving through the Alps and across borders without another adult in the car!!! But if that is what I have to do in order to see Venice and take my time, I'm willing to do it, I think...
ehBeth wrote:<I'm still marvelling at the idea of having enough money to travel with a family in Europe for a month. Just the cost of bottled water for a month would put me off.>
I do know that camping in Europe is quite different from the Canadian/American experience. Not quite as free-wheeling as we're used to. A cousin-by-marriage from Germany joined me and a few friends on a camping trip some years ago. She couldn't get over the fact that there were no washroom attendants, no laundry facilities, no streetlights !, that we cooked on a propane stove instead of going out to a proper restaurant to eat ... Just as she found our type of camping "just not for me", I suspect the reciprocal would be true.
Mulling. That's quite an age range of people to satisfy on one trip.
Do they all HAVE to go?
Yes, they all have to go. The whole purpose of taking everyone is that we are going to be a family: it's making that declaration, creating some good ole days to fall back on... Normally in even years, Bernhard goes to Stuttgart every other year, takes his kids w/him, stays w/his mother. She comes to stay w/him in odd years. Naturally, she wants to see her grandchildren when they visit each other. Separating them into ours and yours isn't an option he wants, nor is leaving K (his 7 year old) behind next year(his mother has no contact w/him,) just taking the nursling along with the 2 of us... So that left taking everyone as the only option. It means that we won't go as frequently as he has in the past, but that everyone will go.
My 14 year old doesn't want to be in one car with everyone, and we wouldn't all fit, anyway (we'll be borrowing his mother's car, which seats 4 comfortably and renting another for the camping; borrowing hers + the host's car for some of the day trips or having the host come with on the day trips, taking the train the rest of the time...) If my daughter who is the complaining voice continues, then she will go along to Germany, but then be left in the farmhouse outside of Stuttgart to fend for herself while the rest of us travel and sightsee. Maybe she could stay w/his mom who lives right in Stuttgart, so she could do some things, but that sounds dangerous to me...
Yes, it is going to cost a LOT. We figure about as much as buying a car. But the value of not separating ought to pay off in huge benefits w/a teenager who keeps trying to divide us into us vs. them and was quite upset to discover that Bernhard and I went ahead and got pregnant and made plans to transition into being one family rather than 2 broken ones.
I have close friends who took their seventeen year old son along with them on a trip to italy. Snarl city. Not only did the son rebel as usual to the parents, the parents could hardly speak. My friend Bonnie (the wife in this case) was the navigator, but she is not, you know, queen of maps, and flubbed up sometimes. Plus, italian turnoff signs are sometimes multiples of places to go.. and you find you where you wanted to go as you sail past. This made dad, the driver, entirely angry. Angry and powerless as he didn't know where he was going...
So, there we have snarling family through italy. Son walked off at some point, I presume with parental itinerary in hand, and snarling.
He, who hated being there, got caught up in some soccer game euphoria in Florence and came out of it enchanted with italy. He now has an mba with emphasis on italian markets or some such and is crazed about italy. Well, hey, his parents liked it but weren't crazed, as they were closer to it.
Moral of the story - who the hell knows. Relax.
We took our son with us to Italy when he was six years old. It's a great place to take children. The Italian people treat them like royalty. Much better than in America.
I think it's great that you can afford to take the whole family!
Personally, having experienced the joys of blending a new family--or presiding over an ungodly amalgamation--I wouldn't throw in a trip to Europe until the dust had settled..but I tend to be chicken in my old age.
Princesspupule, you aren't nearly as timid as I am--and more power to you.
Suggestions:
1. Buy at least one easy-reading guidebook for the area you want to cover. Your daughter may or may not read it, but she will have had the chance to read it.
2. Start drawing up a packing list--and a list of packing problems. Let her know she not only has to live out of a suitcase--she's got to carry the suitcase.
3. Remember, there are major climate differences between Hawaii and Europe. Everyone is going to need new clothes. Use every bargaining advantage that wardrobe shopping will provide.
4. Insist that your unwilling travelers learn the German and Italian for "please" and "thank you" and "excuse me" and "Where is the ladies' room?" For the rest, check out language tapes and hope that osmosis will work.
You're a better woman than I am, Gunga Din.
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