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Wingnuts in a Star Wars line

 
 
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 10:53 am
I thoroughly enjoyed this, I thought you might as well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/19/113526/134

Quote:
Wingnuts in a Star Wars line
by soonergrunt
Thu May 19th, 2005 at 08:35:26 PDT

And I'm not talking about the guy with the Darth Vader suit and helmet.
I went to the 12:21 AM showing of Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith last night. I got there about 11:00 PM and stood in a long line with people of varying ages and walks of life. I met up with a friend who is on mid-tour leave from Iraq, and we hung out together while waiting for the film to begin. The movie was mostly excellent. There were some uneven moments, but I did enjoy it. To my story, then. I was wearing one of my unit t-shirts for the simple reason that I had slept in it earlier and I didn't care to change--it smelled clean enough anyway.

Diaries :: soonergrunt's diary :: :: Trackback ::

While waiting in line with my fellow moviegoers, We listened absentmindedly to snippets of some of the conversations taking place around me in the three lines for the various showings as we shot the **** ourselves. The conversations were mostly centered around Star Wars, of course, but also current events and occasionally various personal issues.

One conversation in particular caught our attention, and we listened to it intently. A gentleman of about mid-twenties or so was holding forth on the 'war on terror,' democrats, Jane Fonda, and so on. His listeners appeared to be the same age range as he. "We need to kick these raghead murderers out of the country...kill them wherever we find them...expand Israel all the way to the persian gulf and make Saudi Arabia a subsidiary of Exxon..."
His listeners, two of whom were wearing 'OU Young Republicans' t-shirts, were nodding their heads and making generally approving comments.
My friend just shook his head and muttered, loud enough for them to hear "******* ignorant assholes."

About my friend, Richard--he volunteered to join a unit from another state because he couldn't find work with he shiny new college degree for almost a year. He accepted a direct commission as a 2nd Liutenant of Infantry as part of the mission. He and I had been together as NCOs during the ground offensive into Iraq, and he's as good a man and a combat leader as they come.

The guy turned to us and said "I suppose you 'liberals' think we ought to just let the Arabs take over our country and kill all the adults and convert our children to muslim (sic) huh?"
Richie--"Not likely in any event, but we don't have an army worth the name anymore, thanks your lord Bush. I'm halfway through a tour over there and I don't see any way we can prevent a civil war, let alone win anything but what do I know? Back here in the land of SUVs and roses, you have a clearer picture don't you?" (I had always thought Richie was a republican--what's up with this?)
One of the others said something to the effect that Richie was full of ****, which he countered by producing his leave form and ID card from his wallet.
"We're winning. Why else would the insurgents do these large attacks that they know they can't win? It's frustration, or make sure they stay in the news. Things are getting better there all the time, but you probably can't see it at your level."
"If we're winning, how come the insurgents are even able to stage these large attacks? If we had that level of control, they wouldn't have any safe assembly areas from which to attack us in any numbers. All we can do is react to them, which means they have the initiative. That's bad," I said.
"They're attacking mainly Iraqis now," said one. "They're afraid to come out and fight us" she said. "Three things," said Richie, "one, attacking Iraqis is a great way to start a civil war-that's a lovely thought-a three-way civil war with us in the middle, and two," he said, "they're attacking us more than enough as it is, thank you, and three," he asked, "are you in the military?" "No, but I support the troops and our Commander in Chief," she replied. "Then what's this 'WE' ****? It's not your ass over there getting IED'ed and RPG'ed and shot at and mortared, so who the **** are you to talk about 'we'?" "Come on, I'm sure the young republicans here all have yellow ribbon magnets on the SUVs their daddies bought them-go easy, man. They support us," I said. (One could, in fact, hear the italics in my voice.)
"He's been there, and got the t-shirt," Richie said, making a twirling motion with his finger to me. I turned around so they could see the image on the back of my shirt.
"Well, with attitudes like yours, we won't win," one of them said.
"Then why don't you join up so you can go over there and show us how it's done?" asked Richie. They looked away. "That's what I thought," he said, "so why don't you all shut your ******* yaps since you don't even believe in your own **** enough to stand up for it?"


That last line could easily apply to the majority of war hawks on this board.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,299 • Replies: 23
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 11:33 am
Re: Wingnuts in a Star Wars line
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I thoroughly enjoyed this, I thought you might as well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/19/113526/134


That last line could easily apply to the majority of war hawks on this board.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn


That's some fine bait your putting out there cyc.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 11:35 am
I'm sure I'll get a bite any minute now. Perhaps if I jiggle the line a little bit...

I'm sure one of you Fighting 101st Keyboardists will be along to tell me how wrong I am any minute now...

Cycloptichorn
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 11:40 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I'm sure I'll get a bite any minute now. Perhaps if I jiggle the line a little bit...

It is generally not a virtue to base your response to a viewpoint on its origin, because anyone, no matter what his personal faults, can have a correct idea. Valid debate generally centers on the idea itself, and not the personal qualities of the person who enunciated it. I do understand, though, why most liberals have a very strong tendency to attack anything but their opponent's actual argument.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 11:43 am
? I'm not sure I see where you are going, Brandon. What 'actual argument' is not being adressed or attacked here?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 11:57 am
The great thing about the internet Cy is that anybody capable of typing can post stuff on a blog regardless of whether it happened or not. I'm not saying what you posted could not have happened, but I will say that there are several things that just do not sound quite right.

Maybe I will write something on my website about a conversation with a bunch of left wingnuts while standing in line for tickets to Kingdom of Heaven a couple weeks ago. I bet I could make some things up that will make them look kinda stupid too.

Sorry, I just tend not to believe stuff just because someone writes it down somewhere. But who knows, maybe it did happen just like the writer says. So what? Just shows that some people should keep their mouths shut sometimes. Smile

(I guess you wiggled the line just right to get me hooked into responding... :wink: )
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:02 pm
You are absolutely right, CR; War Hawks who aren't willing to put their OWN lives on the line SHOULD keep their mouths shut about what's happening over there.

I was wondering how long it would be before someone claimed this was made up.

What, exactly, isn't 'quite right' about this account? What was said that is factually incorrect? What makes you suspicious that this isn't real, other than the fact that you don't want to believe that a soldier wouldn't support the war and has the balls to say something about it?

Cheers as always

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:13 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You are absolutely right, CR; War Hawks who aren't willing to put their OWN lives on the line SHOULD keep their mouths shut about what's happening over there.

I was wondering how long it would be before someone claimed this was made up.

What, exactly, isn't 'quite right' about this account? What was said that is factually incorrect? What makes you suspicious that this isn't real, other than the fact that you don't want to believe that a soldier wouldn't support the war and has the balls to say something about it?

Cheers as always

Cycloptichorn


Yay! You stated your own opinion and now I get to respond all proper like!

How many abortions have you had Cyc.?
How many times have you been put down because you were black? Jewish? Arabic? Indian? A woman?
How long have you served in public office?
How long have you been married to your gay lover?

Do I need to keep going?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:24 pm
No, you can stop making a fool out of yourself at any time.

None of the issues you have listed off can possibly apply to me, as I

am not a woman
am not a minority in this country
am not currently in office
am not gay

Whereas you and other War Hawks could easily join the military, I can't change my race, sexual orientaion, or gender. Therefore your analogy fails, badly. I cannot concievably experience the things I advocate (such as the right to choose for a woman) due to limitations of my physiology; War Hawks have no such excuses.

My statement isn't that people cannot have opinions about things. Just that those who are so willing to put OTHER people's lives on the line for a cause, but not THEIR lives on the line, are hypocrites who should keep their mouth shut; because when push comes to shove, all it is from the Fighting 101st Keyboardists such as yourself is an ideology and a willingness to sacrifice the lives of others.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:28 pm
That's so much bull.

You are saying the old, the young, the handicapped, the non-citizens, can not hold a "hawkish" opinion because they are hypocrites if they do?

Is that really what you mean?
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:28 pm
Cy, first of all my friend (may I call you that?), I certainly have no doubts that there are military people out there who, like you, are not happy they (or we, being the US) are in Iraq. I would be naive to think otherwise. And of all the things I am, naive is not one of them.

Frankly, as I stated, I don't know if what was written actually happened or not. Neither do you or anyone else, so why get into a long drawn out discussion about it. As I said, if it happened, it happened. Just because some people in a line are too dumb to be able to discuss their points with two fine military people does not mean a thing to me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:30 pm
Of course you can refer to me that way! Please understand that I hold you in the highest respect, CR.

If we had more Conservatives like you, I never would have left the Republican party.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:34 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, you can stop making a fool out of yourself at any time.

None of the issues you have listed off can possibly apply to me, as I

am not a woman
am not a minority in this country
am not currently in office
am not gay

Whereas you and other War Hawks could easily join the military, I can't change my race, sexual orientaion, or gender. Therefore your analogy fails, badly. I cannot concievably experience the things I advocate (such as the right to choose for a woman) due to limitations of my physiology; War Hawks have no such excuses.

My statement isn't that people cannot have opinions about things. Just that those who are so willing to put OTHER people's lives on the line for a cause, but not THEIR lives on the line, are hypocrites who should keep their mouth shut; because when push comes to shove, all it is from the Fighting 101st Keyboardists such as yourself is an ideology and a willingness to sacrifice the lives of others.

Cycloptichorn


Actually Cy, you could change your gender or your sexual orientation (I know that last one is my opinion only). But I know you are smart enough to know what McG means. Our opinions diverge where you or anyone takes the stand that a person should not voice opinions just because they are not on the front lines fighting for those opinions. I am anti-abortion, but just because I am not our standing in front of abortion clinics picketing does not mean I cannot be against abortion. You get my drift I think.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:35 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course you can refer to me that way! Please understand that I hold you in the highest respect, CR.

If we had more Conservatives like you, I never would have left the Republican party.

Cycloptichorn


Wow, now I feel good. Maybe I can draw you back away from the dark side. Come toward the light.....that's it, a little closer now Cy, a little closer.......
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:40 pm
Whoo, I just had a vision of the little troll lady from Poltergeist:

All are Welcome, All are Welcome!

I believe that putting people's lives on the line falls in a different category than ordinary opinions; it's easy to be against big gov't, or taxes, without actually joining the gov't to do anything about it. But advocating death situations is a whole 'nother taco in my opinion.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:46 pm
But come on Cy, if only those who join the military may express opinions about war, then you have taken a segment of our population and taken away their right of free speech. Isn't this what so many of you use to argue that gay marriage should be allowed, because not allowing it is discrimination against a segment of our population?

They may not have argued their position well, but it is a fool's argument for the military people to come back and say they should shut up unless they are willing to join up.

And you really gotta watch out for those visions Cy. Seeing them is one thing, but if they try to converse with you, please look out. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 12:55 pm
I'm not trying to limit anyone's free speech; just saying that arguments in favor of putting people in harm's way when it may not be absolutely neccessary are quite hollow when followed up by a reluctance to do it to one's self.

It would be like advocating tax raises for everyone but yourself. Sure, you're allowed to hold the opinion, and allowed to express it; but it just shows how hollow one's reasoning is upon examination.

I believe if you look at the comments initially made by the gentlemen (and ladies) in question in the story, you will find that they are rather, shall we say, extreme in their views. Even the follow-up comments show a disconnection with reality in the name of ideology. One can easily see how angry a soldier would become with someone who claims to 'support the cause' but isn't willing to actually go there and help the cause themselves.

This does raise an interesting question in my mind, though: can one truly be said to be supporting a cause if they do nothing to actually SUPPORT the cause? I mean, I'm a supporter of a woman's right to choose; but that doesn't mean I'm willing to die to protect that right, so do I really support it, or just claim to? At what point does support become something more than just hollow words on a yellow ribbon? I'll think more on this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 01:16 pm
That is an interesting thought Cy. Because when you get right down to it, the ultimate test for what one believes is the willingness to sacrifice everything for that belief. Are you willing to personally sacrifice for that belief? And if not, just how strongly do you believe in it? Or is it just that you have that belief up to the point where you are having to pay a price.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 01:21 pm
That's the part that gets me about the whole War Hawk thing. On most issues, people's lives aren't on the line. On this one, they are. But the War Hawks aren't willing to put their lives on the line, their families' happiness, their futures, just those of others.

This to me is why abortion rights are also such a big issue; lives are literally on the line. It always amazed me that people tend to be anti-abortion, yet pro-war, at the same time; and the opposite side tends to be anti-war, yet pro-abortion. Fascinating when ya think about it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 01:28 pm
It is far easier to put your own life on the line than to ask or even allow the person you love to put his/her life on the line. But I'll make Cyclop a deal. If he and all the other anti-war ranters will completely shut up and not utter another word about the Iraq war, war on terrorism, Afghanister, etc., I would support ONLY those fighting the war having any right to talk about it. Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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