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Thu 19 May, 2005 07:01 am
Is it any wonder why the rest of the nations of the world do not trust the "good intentions" of the US? Would you?
Air force urges Bush to deploy space arms
By Tim Weiner The New York Times
THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2005
NEW YORK The U.S. Air Force, saying it must secure outer space to protect the nation from attack, is seeking President George W. Bush's approval of a national security directive that could move the United States closer to having offensive and defensive space weapons, according to White House and air force officials.
The proposed change would be a substantial shift in policy. It would almost certainly be opposed by many American allies and potential enemies, who have said it might create an arms race in space.
A senior administration official said that a new presidential directive would replace a 1996 Clinton administration policy that emphasized a more pacific use of space.
Any deployment of space weapons would face financial, technological, political and diplomatic hurdles, although no treaty or law bans Washington from putting weapons in space, other than weapons of mass destruction.
A presidential directive is expected within weeks, said the senior administration official, who is involved with space policy and insisted that he not be identified because the directive was still under final review and the White House had not disclosed its details.
Air force officials said Tuesday that the directive, which is still in draft form, did not call for militarizing space.
"The focus of the process is not putting weapons in space," said Major Karen Finn, an air force spokeswoman. "The focus is having free access in space."
With little public debate, the Pentagon has already spent billions of dollars developing space weapons and preparing plans to deploy them.
"We haven't reached the point of strafing and bombing from space," Pete Teets, who stepped down last month as the acting secretary of the air force, told a space-warfare symposium last year. "Nonetheless, we are thinking about those possibilities."
In January 2001, a commission led by Donald Rumsfeld, before he became the defense secretary, recommended that the military should "ensure that the president will have the option to deploy weapons in space."
The effort to develop a new policy directive reflects three years of work prompted by the report. The White House would not say if all the report's recommendations would be adopted.
In 2002, Bush withdrew from the 30-year-old Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, which banned space-based weapons.
Ever since, the air force has sought a new presidential policy officially ratifying the concept of seeking American space superiority.
The air force believes "we must establish and maintain space superiority," General Lance Lord, who leads the U.S. Air Force Space Command, told Congress recently. "Simply put, it's the American way of fighting."
The mission would require new weapons, new satellites, new ways of doing battle and, by some estimates, hundreds of billions of dollars. It faces enormous technological obstacles and many U.S. allies object to the idea of space as an American frontier.
A new air force strategy, called Global Strike, calls for a military space plane carrying precision-guided weapons armed with a half-ton of munitions. Lord told Congress last month that Global Strike would be "an incredible capability" to destroy command centers or missile bases "anywhere in the world."
Pentagon documents say the weapon could strike from halfway around the world in 45 minutes. "This is the type of prompt Global Strike I have identified as a top priority for our space and missile force," Lord said.
The air force's drive into space has been accelerated by the Pentagon's failure to build a nuclear-missile defense on earth. After 22 years and nearly $100 billion, Pentagon officials say they cannot reliably detect and destroy a threat.
While the Missile Defense Agency struggles with new technology for a space-based laser, the air force already has a potential weapon in space. In April, it launched the XSS-11, an experimental microsatellite with the technical capability to disrupt other military reconnaissance and communications satellites.
Another space program, nicknamed Rods From God, aims to hurl cylinders of tungsten, titanium or uranium from the edge of space to destroy targets on the ground, striking at speeds of about 7,200 miles an hour, or 11,500 kilometers an hour, with the force of a small nuclear weapon. A third program would bounce laser beams off mirrors hung from satellites or huge high-altitude blimps, redirecting the lethal rays to targets around the world.
Senior military and space officials of the European Union, Canada, China and Russia have objected publicly to the notion of American space superiority.
No nation will "accept the U.S. developing something they see as the death star," Teresa Hitchens of the Center for Defense Information, a policy-analysis group in Washington, said at a meeting of the Council on Foreign Relations. "I don't think the United States would find it very comforting if China were to develop a death star, a 24/7 on-orbit weapon that could strike at targets on the ground anywhere in 90 minutes."
International objections aside, Randy Correll, an air force veteran and military consultant, told the council, "The big problem now is, it's too expensive." The air force has not put a price tag on space superiority. Studies by leading weapons scientists, physicists and engineers place the cost of a space-based antimissile system at anywhere from $220 billion to $1 trillion.
Don't blame the military for making the suggestion, even silly ones like this. It is their job to think about this kind of "stuff" and how to better defend the Nation. It is the job of our elected officials to accept the good one and reject the bad ones.
So apparently we have the technology to do this but we do not have the technology to :
1. Create alternative power sources?
2. Enforce Immigration Laws?
3. Secure Borders?
Understand that just because the Air Force is urging the President to deploy these things, doesn't mean it will ever happen.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who work for the DoD whos entire job is to just 'Think **** up'.
They come up with some of the strangest ideas to protect the country, kill the enemy, gather intelligence or whatever their fiendish imaginations come up with.
Everyone wants his 'pet project' to be built and deployed. Most of these ideas are just filed away in the 'Wacky Ideas' folder.
The reason we stay current is so if someday, an enemy coumes out of left field with a new weapon/system and tries to deploy it, instead of having to start the research from scratch about how to deploy a similar system, they will say:
General One: "Hey, the enemy just deployed a self guided, anti poodle, missile launcher."
General Two: Christ! We are gonna be behind in anti poodle technology!"
Mad Scientist: Not so fast, I submitted plans for a heat seeking, anti poodle rocket several years ago and you thought it was crazy!"
General One: <checks the files> "HERE IT IS! Right behind the banana gun!"
General Two: "Get it in production immediately! We'll show them that we won't be beaten in this race."
America long ago decided that it wouldn't be 'caught short' again in the tech race.
Try not to worry too much about things that haven't even happened yet.
I am of two minds on space battle technology.
From a military standpoint, it is critical that we develop this area, even if we develop purely defensive weapons. For a long time we have known that 'he who controls the sky, controls the war.' And Near Earth Orbits are the ultimate 'sky.'
From a social standpoint, I fear the reprecussions of extending our military power in an offensive fashion into space; it is difficult to see how the weapons won't be used someday, and the consequences of that could be terrible...
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:I am of two minds on space battle technology.
From a military standpoint, it is critical that we develop this area, even if we develop purely defensive weapons. For a long time we have known that 'he who controls the sky, controls the war.' And Near Earth Orbits are the ultimate 'sky.'
From a social standpoint, I fear the reprecussions of extending our military power in an offensive fashion into space; it is difficult to see how the weapons won't be used someday, and the consequences of that could be terrible...
Cycloptichorn
I am in agreement with you on this one.
(I checked and I don't have a fever. A chill maybe but not a fever.)
Cycloptichorn wrote:I am of two minds on space battle technology.
From a military standpoint, it is critical that we develop this area, even if we develop purely defensive weapons. For a long time we have known that 'he who controls the sky, controls the war.' And Near Earth Orbits are the ultimate 'sky.'
From a social standpoint, I fear the reprecussions of extending our military power in an offensive fashion into space; it is difficult to see how the weapons won't be used someday, and the consequences of that could be terrible...
Cycloptichorn
What? Me Worry?
The weapons will probably be less effective than the present missile shield and only 100 times more expensive. So obviously we need to get on this right away.
It doesn't matter if the technology works. What matters is whether no bid hugely profitable contracts can be given to campaign supporters, inner circle associates and family members.
blueveinedthrobber wrote:It doesn't matter if the technology works. What matters is whether no bid hugely profitable contracts can be given to campaign supporters, inner circle associates and family members.
It matters if they can get the job done or not. I think that would be the most important criteria for the job.
Baldimo wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:It doesn't matter if the technology works. What matters is whether no bid hugely profitable contracts can be given to campaign supporters, inner circle associates and family members.
It matters if they can get the job done or not. I think that would be the most important criteria for the job.
I agree. Too bad bushinc doesn't prioritize it that way. They give billions of our taxpayer dollars and no refund if the thing doesn't work. That's the main plan.
In all fairness no piece of **** highly placed politician, businessman, or military procurer cares about anything but the opportunity to porfit.
blueveinedthrobber wrote:Baldimo wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:It doesn't matter if the technology works. What matters is whether no bid hugely profitable contracts can be given to campaign supporters, inner circle associates and family members.
It matters if they can get the job done or not. I think that would be the most important criteria for the job.
I agree. Too bad bushinc doesn't prioritize it that way. They give billions of our taxpayer dollars and no refund if the thing doesn't work. That's the main plan.
Bush doesn't make the decision it is done by another group.
I wish you believed the same for some of the social programs that are in effect. If they don't work after the billions of dollars we spend we should get a refund.
When it comes to family members did you feel the same way about Clinton putting his cousins travel business in charge of the White House travel office?
Quote:What? Me Worry?
The weapons will probably be less effective than the present missile shield and only 100 times more expensive. So obviously we need to get on this right away.
Hmm, I really disagree with this Parados. Space-borne weapons have the potential for far more destruction and defense than practically any other form of weaponry imaginable, for the simple fact that kinetic energy blows the sh!t out of things.
I have a friend here at Univ. of Texas who works on a project for the DoD called 'thors' hammer.' It works kind of like this:
Put a bunch of crowbars into orbit with a little rocket engine on the back and a digitial camera on the front. Maybe ya put some fairings or small wings on the back, it doesn't really matter.
When the enemy comes into the right zone, you call down about 100 of them in a spread pattern above the battlefield. The bars fall out of orbit and look like lines of fire falling from the sky. When they hit the ground, they EACH leave about a 25-foot deep hole in WHATEVER they hit. You could absolutely decimate a column of tanks with 50 of these things, and with good targetting they could be quite precision weapons.
This is a good choice for anti-naval defense as well. With enough of these, the odds of landing troops on our shores drops to about zero.
Of course, if we can do it, so can they, so that's the dangerous part.... but we CANNOT ignore this avenue of defense/offense.
I am a peacenik! I hate war! But to leave ourselves defenseless is not smart.
Cycloptichorn
Here we are preaching about nuclear proliferation [for the other guy of course] and yet we talk of the development of weapons in space. Of course not by the other guy. I am sure that if some other nation would make the proposal we would be screaming like stuck pigs.
We have become a nation that believes in don't do as I do. Do as I say.
Well, I agree with ya, Au; but the fact is that kinetic energy weapons, while destructive, are pretty much the least pollutive of all weapons that can be used for either offense or defense.
There's no fallout or high explosive residue at all. That alone makes them worth looking at.
Cycloptichorn
I dont think this really matters but, do you think other countries are going to accept this?
Depends. Was his cousin a huge campaign contributor and did he help write policy that affected all citizens like bushs' buddies?
Dang Cylco.. that is what I am talking about..
crowbars in space with a video camera? Yeah.. that should work great and only cost about 10 million per crowbar since each would have to have a heat shield to keep it from burning up on reentry. Not to mention all the weight of fuel and rocket motors to control it to get it to leave orbit when you need it.
Lets put it in orbit tomorrow rather than spending 10 years testing it before we find out it doesn't work.
not to wrote
Quote:do you think other countries are going to accept this?
Do you think "it's my way or the highway" Cares what the rest of civilization thinks??
We must not forget he talks to God.
blueveinedthrobber wrote:Depends. Was his cousin a huge campaign contributor and did he help write policy that affected all citizens like bushs' buddies?
You still didn't mention how you felt about it. Don't dodge answer the question.
parados wrote:Dang Cylco.. that is what I am talking about..
crowbars in space with a video camera? Yeah.. that should work great and only cost about 10 million per crowbar since each would have to have a heat shield to keep it from burning up on reentry. Not to mention all the weight of fuel and rocket motors to control it to get it to leave orbit when you need it.
This turns out not to be the case. Compare the cost effectiveness versus an aircraft carrier, and it comes up quite a bit in favor of the space-based weaponry.
parados wrote:Lets put it in orbit tomorrow rather than spending 10 years testing it before we find out it doesn't work.
They've been studying this since at least the mid-seventies. Treaty obligations have kept us from implementing it.
Baldimo wrote:blueveinedthrobber wrote:Depends. Was his cousin a huge campaign contributor and did he help write policy that affected all citizens like bushs' buddies?
You still didn't mention how you felt about it. Don't dodge answer the question.
I think all politicians feather their nest. I do not think you can compare getting one's cousin to start a travel agency with starting a war for the financial benefit of your relatives and friends. No one died as a result of Clintons cousin booking travel, so no it doesn't bother me, nor would it bother me if it was bushs' cousin getting to be the white house travel agent. If Clinton started a for profit war that cost billions of dollars and thousands of human lives, loss of propertiy, antiquities and our global reputation and was motivated in EVERYTHING he did by enriching himself his relatives and inner circle regardless the cost ion human services, rights and suffering I'd be plenty pissed off.
Clear enough for you?