Please please please be honest...

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I've asked other's opinions about my situation, but I've never asked anyone who I do not personally know. I'm writing this in hopes that someone who does not personally know anyone in this situation will have an outlook that I have not considered. I'm so lost.

My husband and I got married, everything was great and our future was promising. I was prescribed medication a few years before we even met for an anxiety disorder. A few years go by and I wanted to get off of the pills and failed miserably. I did not know how physically and mentally dependant I became on them as the years went by, until I tried to stop taking them.
I was put on Zoloft to try to whene myself off of the pills but it did nothing.

Throughout all of this (which was about a year-long process) I became very dependant on my husband for everything. I was depressed, self-consious, and more than anything, scared beyond belief because I felt so weak for not being able to get off the pills. He took care of me in every possible way and in turn neglected himself. I didn't work, clean the house, do anything at all. I should have gotten help a long time before, but when I became borderline agoraphobic it was clear I needed professional help.

In March of last year I went to a rehab for one month and it was an absolute success! I was determined to beat the addiction, failure was not an option, I had to change. After years of taking those pills, I was finally free of them. My husband and I thought that our marriage would be great after this, but I got home and felt unbelievably uncomfortable.

I was not comfortable being very physically close to him, like sitting close together or holding hands. Kissing seemed unnatural for me and sex seemed downright wrong. My husband was very understanding even though it wasn't easy for him. It was very hard on both of us. We agreed that marriage counseling was the best step we could make.

As I became more and more comfortable with my surroundings (with a sober mind), I felt more and more comfortable around my husband. I caught myself looking at him sexually and was so excited because I saw that as a sign that our marriage would be okay. I see know that, when I first got back, I just didn't know who I was supposed to be or how I was supposed to act so it was hard for me to be with him. It just took me some time.

We continued the therapy sessions and one day he told me (and the therapist) that he could not see me sexually. He said that he was pretty sure that it was a reaction to how I was acting when I first got back.
That was understandable and even though I was hurt, I was still hopeful and we still continued therapy. I figured that he went through the same thing so it was my turn to be patient.

As time went by, he started spending more time with his friends and got into fundraising and other activities outside of work and I supported them even though I was feeling farther and farther away from him. He talks to his friends about our situation but he never talks about it with me outside of therapy. He said that he doesn't want to hurt my feelings by talking about how he's not in love with me anymore.
I can't say that I blame him, it was horrible talking about how I didn't have feelings for him in front of him in therapy.

Time has gone by and he has said (in therapy) that he thinks he stopped having those kinds of feelings for me since before I even left to rehab. He said he didn't realize it until he had time to think about it. He didn't think about it before because he was only thinking of me and how to take care of me.
He still feels that way and this is where we still are today.

We've been in marriage counseling for a year now.
We honestly do have a better, more functional relationship now, but as roomates who are best friends. He does not see me sexually in the least bit.

He still does "guys night", a weekly night that he never did before, he's still doing the other things as well, but as I see that as healthy and support all of those things, I feel that he's building a life without me in it and I don't know what I can do other than give him space and be patient and wait. But at the same time I don't want space between us.

I desperately want this marriage to work and he says he does as well. We continue therapy but nothing is changing.

We say the same things over and over in therapy:"We both want this marriage to work" and he has said repeatedly, "I love her to death, but I see her as my sister/friend, not as anyhting else"

We have gone into all of the issues about him possibly "guarding" himself because of all that has happened between our relationship. Guarding himself because he never wants what happened last year to happen again. Psychologically, that and so many other things makes sense, and I know that, but what can we do? What can I possibly do? I'm loosing hope that he'll be able to ever "come back" to me.
This is breaking my heart and I feel so alone in this fight to save our marriage.
He says he wants our marriage to work, but he is a good man and I'm
wondering if he's trying just because it's "the right thing to do" to try. He has said that if he didn't want this marriage to work then he would not be trying counseling and I know that's true, he's a very honest person. But I know that inside he doesn't want to go to counseling because he feels that we're going around in circles, which I have to agree. We go to the sessions but no action taking place in any of this.
I would take action if I knew what I could do. I cannot cross a line that will make him uncomfortable (like trying to kiss him). Our therapist has suggested things like that for us to try but he has said that he would absolutely not like that and it would be so incredibly uncomfortable.
What can I do? What can I say to him? How can I do more?
I wake up every morning hoping that all of this is a nightmare.
I don't know what to do.
Please tell me what you think.

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I think you are in a bad place with your marriage right now. What worries me is that all the interesting things seem to be done by your husband. The only thing you say about yourself is your medical history.

What are you doing for yourself? How are you making yourself interesting and desirable? My suggestion is to rebuild your persona. Who are you? You are not just a recovering addict, you are a person with talents, opinions, and passions. Explore those with a vengeance. Get a job or go back to school or take classes at the local community college. Start reading interesting things. Find out which you like better: live theater or the ballet. Go to museums and art galleries. If you are not in shape... get in shape. Even if you are in shape, start going to a gym or create an exercise program for yourself. Walk, ride a bike, swim, play tennis, take up golf. Start yoga or Tai Chi. Get your haircut, toss out your old clothes and start anew.

That's what you'd do if your marriage broke up. So start now. Even if this doesn't rekindle your husband's interest in you, it will make YOU more you.

I'd also suggest that you make yourself less vulnerable and less available to him. There is nothing that is a greater sexual turnoff than someone following you around like a sad puppy. You can be kind, but slightly distant.

So, my advice is to get some interests, girl, and stop being such a sad sack.

Good luck and keep in touch.

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What could we possibly tell you that your therapist hasn't already touched on?

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I think the one thing is what Piffka said, very well -- basically, you've gone as far as you can with therapy, and now it's time for some living without necessarily plumbing everything for deeper meaning. The whole you know I know you know I know you know stuff is doom for a relationship. IMO. The talking ABOUT the relationship instead of just talking, just relating to each other, whether the subject is birds or politics.

A good therapist would hopefully tell you that, but a therapist telling you that is also saying, "OK, I've had enough money from you, bye bye!"

It does sound like a very difficult place to be in, but I think if you're both willing to try and if things are going so much better for you, personally, there is hope.

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Ok, nevermind what I last posted. Listen to Piffka and Sozobe.

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smills -
Wow, excellent writing! ... really clear!
You both care about each other.

Anxiety disorder. Oh well, **** happens and all we can do is try to work it out.

You are a beautiful and amazing human being. That's just obvious so okay, now let's look at what's going on.

There's a lot of emotional content here. 90% of people will not be able to deal with it. So get used to other people flailing, and be comfortable that lots of people freak out or give really wiggy advice.

You are the expert. You know the answers better than anybody. You are designing and creating the life that you want. So let's do it...

1) Everybody is an individual. You have your thoughts and experiences. He has his.
You both may be compatible with each other and able to work together. Or you may not.
At all times . . . stand on your own two feet. It's your life. You should build it.

2) He doesn't have feelings for you, at this moment. You don't have feelings for him.
It's okay. Maybe feelings will come or maybe they won't. It's still okay.

3) Aftershocks. Curl up and stay warm, and after a little while, when you are
ready then come out again. No rush. An emotional hangover can take a little time.

4) A "more functional relationship" is one where people communicate. You are doing
really well there! Boo-yah, it's amazing, I wish more people were as advanced as you two!

It's like being blasted in a car crash. And then you're stunned.
Whoa. Hold on. Let's sit for a bit and gather our wits.

Sometimes the best thing you can do ... is just hold somebody's hand.
Be there with each other. Hold on. Take a few breaths. Take a
lot of breaths. And then say hello again.

When two people both wake up from a nightmare, then whoa,
look at each other, stop for a minute and take a deep breath,
stand up, walk and get a glass of water,
sit for a few seconds and think about what's real.
Be with each other. And build something again from scratch.

What do you do on a first date? You talk. You say hi. You
introduce yourself to each other and how things are.
"Life is never perfect, but hey there's a lot of good things too."
You want to go for a walk? Or just sit by the river?
Do things together that ... don't really require very much.
Just to take some easy time, at an arboretum or pond or peaceful place,
and just hold each others hands for a time.

You both love each other. Go easy. Sit for a while.

Build it all over again, without forcing or pushing anything.
Sit and breath together, wherever things make both of you smile.

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I agree with Piffka.

Try and do more with yourself.
If it's easy, so much the better, and if it's difficult to make changes because of anxiety or depression, then it is only more important.

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sozobe wrote:

I think the one thing is what Piffka said, very well -- basically, you've gone as far as you can with therapy, and now it's time for some living without necessarily plumbing everything for deeper meaning. The whole you know I know you know I know you know stuff is doom for a relationship. IMO. The talking ABOUT the relationship instead of just talking, just relating to each other, whether the subject is birds or politics.

I'm just goingt to tag onto Soz's post here because I agree with it. I'd also add two other comments - You may have gone as far as you can in therapy but it's possible that a change in therapists can help with that. Second, You've been dependent on drugs and your husband. It's also possible that you may be becoming dependent on therapy (or a therapist) too.

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Very insightful and MUCH appreciated
I am so glad I came upon this website and did this.
How incredibly refreshing to hear other people's opinions and suggestions. And every single response is greatly appreciated.

Piffka, you're right. I didn't say much of anything about myself!
I think there is a line (that is sometimes not so easy to see) between being there for your spouse and co-dependency (i.e. my marriage pre-rehab) and I have crossed that line.

I think that your observation is very telling and I am so glad.
Your statement "Even if this doesn't rekindle your husband's interest in you, it will make YOU more you" is so true. I now feel like I should have known that all along, but I guess sometimes it takes someone who hasn't looked at things under a magnifying glass while you yourself have used it to dissect things to pieces.

I do have a few things going on on my own but I have such a struggle trying to do my own thing right now, completely separate from him. I feel, given the state that our marriage is in, like every day, every hour counts. I begin thinking: What if we were together right now and something happened that created a spark? I'm not there and this day could have been a chance.
Okay. I know how useless, on so many different levels, that that kind of thinking is and that I do not need to continue it.

It's just a little difficult to control those thoughts right now-I just wanted to let you into my head for a minute.

And I also absolutely agree about your comments about following him around like a "sad puppy". I see that I have been doing that, emotionally (example:above statements), which in turn causes me to question my worth, which I, as well as everyone in this world, should never ever do.

Sozobe,
I think you are absolutely right:
"...it's time for some living without necessarily plumbing everything for deeper meaning."
When we just hang out and talk about other things it's great. My problem is that when we are hanging out, having a good time and we're not being serious and are enjoying each other, I feel so close to him.

That feeling of closeness triggers a fear that I do not understand right away, but then I identify the root of it:
I might loose this closeness.

Then it becomes a chain reaction:
I might loose this closeness because we might divorce.

I think of why:
I might loose this closeness because we might divorce because he does not feel this kind of closeness with me.

I think of what might help things:
If we talk about it and I can understand why he can't feel this closeness with me, then maybe I can relate and do something about it because I want this to work so badly.

Over-analyzing? Yes.
Obsessive? Yes.
Able to control these thoughts? No.

Again, just letting you inside my head.

CodeBorg,
You are not only thoughtful and encouraging, but you gave such an optimistic outlook on both situations of if things work out or not.
I believe that attitude has such an effect on the outcome of things and your words help considerably in that area.

SCoates and Fishin',
I just re-read Piffka and Sozobe's responces because of your entries and I agree with all of it too.

It makes me think of a metaphor about a man who worked on his car with his friends. They search for weeks for the reason of why the car won't start. They change the oil, replace old parts with new and wind up tearing the entire engine apart and still can't figure it out.
Then one day a stranger walks up, gets behind the wheel and reveals the problem: the car has no gas in it.

I think that all of your thoughts, suggestions, advice and the way that you all view my situation is very much like the stranger who discovers the empty gas tank.
I should have considered all of this before, but have been having trouble doing so because I have been obsessively thinking about it.

I'm not saying that the answer is going to be as simple as the gas tank, and I'm not saying that it won't be. In fact, I'm not saying that there even is an answer, there may not be.

Regarding therapy, it's not unbelievable to consider that it's done all it can do for the marriage. I'm probably hoping that there are still some things left to discuss because if there are not, is this the end? Have we done all we can do?
I pray that there is something left "unturned".
I hope that one day we might shout EUREKA! after discovering the reason he can only see me as a friend and that we will get past it.

I have to add something else and would certainly like to hear any thoughts:
Throughout all of this, my gutt is telling me that he does not entirely trust me, even though he thinks he completely does.
I think that he was put through so much before that he is afraid to let me back into his heart out of fear of getting hurt again.
I don't think he's afraid that I'll start taking pills again, he's stated that over and over, but I do think that the wife he once knew, who had the sporadic and unpredictable behavior, is associated with sex-because that was when we were having it.
We have not had sex since I've been back from rehab.
So I ask myself:
Is it possible that he, deep inside, might fear that if he were to open his heart to me again, that somehow my old ways will return, that we will regress back into a parent/child relationship, so then consiquently his heart will be hurt all over again?
Is it possible that yes, he does fear that, and therefore he is unwilling to open his heart to me, hence, he cannot see me sexually?

Again, just some thoughts;)

I'm going to get really nerdy now and end this with one of my favorite quotes:

"There is no normal life, there's just life."
-Doc Holliday, Tombstone

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Quote:

I think that he was put through so much before that he is afraid to let me back into his heart out of fear of getting hurt again.

I think that you know the answer. IMO, you need to stop overanalyzing, stop contemplating your navel, and simply LIVE. As others have suggested, become involved in activities that you love. Take up a hobby, volunteer, go to school, get a job.

Maybe now is the time to move away from therapy. As others have said, there are some therapists who DO create dependency, and you certainly don't want to trade one addiction for another. It is NOT necessary to analyze everything that is going on in your life.

Become something more than simply a patient. I think that you have been so used to the role of patient, along with the secondary gains that being a patient affords, that you have lost your own sense of humanity.

Work on developing yourself, without any expectations about how it will affect your marriage. If it helps the marriage, great. If it doesn't, you will enable yourself to move on, with confidence. Either way, you will come out a winner. Good luck!

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I've read through your posts and the comments from others. You've been given some excellent advice.

I have a question that might have come up in your therapy. Is it possible that your husband fell in love with the dependent you, the anxious you, the needy/clingy you but then discovered he was attracted to your illness and the sense of 'white knighthood' it gave him, not the more vibrant, independent you that was underneath? It's possible he needs to be needed and although he outwardly supported your efforts to become more emotionally stable, he isn't attracted to someone who doesn't need him at the same level you once did. He might not have been aware of how much we was benefitting from your previous relationship (assuming he was) and he might not be able to turn back his desires to someone who no longer depends on him completely.

I think you should focus on your happiness and your personal growth. I think it is truly possible that as you continue to grow your husband will rediscover the spark that attracted you to him in the first place. I also think it is possible that the two of you will discover that the foundation of your original relationship was based on your dependency and his enabling and to rebuild your relationship will need to be based on a different foundation. It's doable and it sounds like you are both willing to work at saving your marriage so it's worth a shot.

Good luck and best wishes!

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Re: Very insightful and MUCH appreciated

smills wrote:

I am so glad I came upon this website and did this.

We're glad you did, too.

Quote:

I now feel like I should have known that all along....

Don't beat yourself up about this, you are a perfectly valid person who has gone through a lot.

Quote:

I do have a few things going on on my own

I'll bet you have some great things going on, Smills, and there will be lots more to come. Most of your creativity has probably been submerged in light of the problems you've had. A good marriage is such an all-encompassing thing, it would be very difficult to see beyond the trouble.

Quote:

Over-analyzing? Yes.
Obsessive? Yes.
Able to control these thoughts? No.

But you can control those thoughts... and every single time you do it will become easier. When you start to think of something upsetting, tell yourself that "Yes, I do need to think about that, but not now. I'll do it from 4:30- 4:45 this afternoon" (or whenever). Then force yourself to think about it hard and write about it then and only then. Keep a notebook about it... don't share this... it is for just for you. At 4:45pm, stop. Stop and immediately get your mind thinking about something else. Take a long walk with some great music playing, dance hard to some rock 'n roll, watch engrossing TV... whatever suits your lifestyle.

To me, I think you are at a difficult but temporary junction. Try to make the most of what you have. It takes a little planning sometimes, but that is good. See your life as a cycle. You have days make up of hours, weeks made up of days. Be active and productive. Be sure to get at least one thing done that you really, really want to do for yourself every single day.

Quote:

CodeBorg,
You are not only thoughtful and encouraging, but you gave such an optimistic outlook on both situations of if things work out or not.
I believe that attitude has such an effect on the outcome of things and your words help considerably in that area.

I also thought CB was giving you wonderful advice.

JB's idea that your husband may have become used to being the White Knight who found some satisfaction in your dependency seems a possibility to me. It would certainly be human nature to have those feelings and needn't reflect on him in a terribly negative way. Maybe you can use this as a way to reach him. Perhaps he needs to be reassured that you do need him.

Without losing your own self again or limiting this to sex, is there anything you can do (through the common everyday actions more than words) to reassure your husband that you do count on him? Can you be sure he knows how much you appreciated his help when you were in such difficulties? I'm sure he would be embarassed to think that he may have "enjoyed" the dependency, so I would tread softly here.

I also have to wonder... was he ever checked for sexual dysfunction?

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I know how you feel about being unable to stop overanalysing... I do the exact same thing myself and i can spend whole hours crying on Phil and saying i know it's not real, i know it's my head but it hurts!! Thankfully he's pretty understanding

Do you keep a diary? Sometimes if you write it down it gets it out...

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Keep in mind, there are physical reasons for emotions, therefor other physical things, like stress for example, can affect them.

I'm referring to your husbands feelings for you. Improving yourself will make YOU happier, but maybe your husband could use the same medicine.

He may feel better in the relationship if he takes the same advice that has been offered to you.

Don't know, just a thought.

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I've never been in the same situation as you have but have gone through something similar and would like to share that with you.

My relationship had problems throughout the entire one year duration. My gf at the time had just broken up with her ex and there was a lot of leftovers and we spent our time constantly trying to over come this.

Recently things have started getting better and all of a sudden i found myself falling out of love with her. I thought through it over and over to look for a reason why when things were rough all I wanted was for us to be ok and now that things are better why am i feeling this way??

It took me some time and solitude before I finally realized that our whole relationship was built on the problems we had. I had gotten so used to the existence of this problem and it was all i knew. I never knew what it was like to have a relationship without the problem and when i finally did i realized that perhaps it was not what i wanted.

Sometimes when we are so caught up with dealing with problems we don't stop to enjoy the relationship or the person. Finally when the problems go away and when we are no longer distracted we begin to question our true feelings for this person.

It takes time to get used to this 'new' relationship and i believe your husband is going through a transition. Its good that the both of you want this to work out and thats what counts. Give him his time so that he has the solitude he needs to sort things out and adjust. It sounds as though he still loves you and just needs more time. Be supportive of him but most of all have faith in him and his love for you.

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smills, i think everyone's given you really good advice, and iprobably din't have anything much better to add... but i wanted to tell you how much i empathize with your situation, and hope it works out. Stay in touch with us all here, we're all cheering for you and wishing you the best! What activities do you pursue on your own? I'm in the middle of trying to become less clingy with my boyfriend and trying to find my own interests too... it can be tough to convince yourself that the space will help probably help heal your relationship, not harm it in the long term. also, that Tombstone quote is one i think of all the time!!! makes me feel better sometimes Smile

dont ya just love Doc?

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I don't want chevy to fall through the cracks here... we're listening, chevy, if not immediately up to speed.

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Wow, Smills, you've not only received great advice, you've written very clearly and thoughtfully about your situation.... why not add writing to your list of things to develop for yourself?

I very much agree that working on your own self is the only answer here. If I were you, I'd make a big effort to drop all your thoughts which analyze your husband or your relationship, and concentrate on your own happiness and personal development. Why? Because your own self is the only thing you can possibly change and be responsible for.

I think many women believe that marriage is more than it is in reality. We are raised with a silly belief that if we marry, our lives will suddenly become perfect and all our problems will disappear. We all learn, if we marry, that nothing could be further from the truth! An intimate relationship makes things more complicated, not necessarily better.

We never find that "perfect" storybook marriage where we live happily ever after with no effort on our own parts. A bit disappointing, but it also frees you to be yourself, and reminds you that only your own life and your own actions are under your control, married or not.

As for things to actually do, I'd personally visit your local library and look up books by Albert Ellis on RET or REBT (Rational Emotive Therapy or Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy). This therapy focuses entirely on your own thoughts and how they affect your actions and your life.

If you can learn to stop worrying and putting yourself down (and it's hard to do), you can free yourself in ways you never dreamed of before. I like this therapy because you can start working it Today, and actually feel a bit of difference. It takes a lot of work and persistence, but it's something you can do on your own, with no help from anyone, and that's very empowering. You realize your own strength has always been there, inside yourself, just waiting for you to develop it and make use of it in your life.

Exercise, classes, a part-time job, crafts, needlework, hobbies, are all great things you can do & have already been suggested. Meditation is also very good to learn (books by the Dalai Lama are my favorite), to get some control over one's sometimes scattered thoughts.

A new therapist may be in order, or possibly just dropping this therapist... if this person isn't helping you, don't pay them!

Have you tried the book, "Fighting For Your Marriage?" This has a great technique called the "Speaker-Listener Technique" you can use to talk to your husband, which just communicates each of your thoughts without doing anything to change those thoughts. Listening to one another without judgment can make a huge difference.

I get the impression you'll be fine, Smills. You're just at a difficult spot in your life. Things will get better! Chin up! We're all rooting for you! Smile

P.S. - And congratulations on your succesful Rehab experience. Pat yourself on the back, OK? You did a really difficult thing, which not everyone can do. Having met that challenge, set yourself some more challenges! Big hugs to you.

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ossobuco wrote:

I don't want chevy to fall through the cracks here... we're listening, chevy, if not immediately up to speed.

Chevy... speed???

Very Happy

I was pleased that Chevy wrote too and hoped Smills would respond since he was giving the man's side.

Welcome, Chevy. That was a very kind entry here. I think it is very easy to enjoy someone's dependence and at least partly why children leaving home shocks the parents... or why we love our animals so much.

A dependent's ties can easily go beyond love and feels like insurance for the relationship. Balanced relationships are stronger, but how do you achieve a perfect balance over the years? I think they go back and forth.

It is sad to think someone may fall out of love.

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You're right Phoenix, thank you for your reply.
Over the last couple of days I've backed off from shoving the therapy down our throats and I feel a little relief from the stress.
But it's hard.
It's hard for me to not be sad when I notice certain things.
My husband used to care about things like what I did that day and now that I'm backing off it's just all the more clear that he is not interested.
And I'm getting to the point that I don't care.
I think the overanalizing has finally caught up with me and I just got tired of it, I don't know.
I do appreciate all of your words and hope that I hear form you again-you're very helpful and I hope things in your life are going well!

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Please please please be honest...

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