OMG! CONDI (and BUSH & Now SCOTT) Still Thinks IRAQ = 9/11

Lash,

Quote:

Investigate. You see everything in such black and white terms. All or nothing. That's a bit rigid, isn't it? For one who purports herself to be so flexible...

Who is doing the investigating? The people who are accused of doing something wrong? That has a low chance of ever finding out the truth, and you know it.

Cycloptichorn

Lash,

Quote:

Investigate. You see everything in such black and white terms. All or nothing. That's a bit rigid, isn't it? For one who purports herself to be so flexible...

Who is doing the investigating? The people who are accused of doing something wrong? That has a low chance of ever finding out the truth, and you know it.

Cycloptichorn

Face up to who committing atrocities?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Lash,

Quote:

Investigate. You see everything in such black and white terms. All or nothing. That's a bit rigid, isn't it? For one who purports herself to be so flexible...

Who is doing the investigating? The people who are accused of doing something wrong? That has a low chance of ever finding out the truth, and you know it.

Cycloptichorn

Incorrect!

Unless you accuse every American soul on duty in these facilities, you can count on the truth being told.

As has been proven in this case.

Your tendency to distrust all American guards underlines the point I made.

And, you can't take the word of detainees against their guards as the sole evidence, either and you know it!

When someone tries to smear all guards by association with code words like 'solid block' and 'consistent atrocities', I take issue. You are trying to lump them, dlowan, smear them all for the behavior of an extreme minorityand you know it!

This doesn't prove or disprove anything, but it shows how prisoner/guard relationships are fertile grounds for abuse.

The participants in the test were 'average Joes,' previously tested to make sure there were no aggressive tendencies. Good American kids. The test was to be for two weeks. It had to be stopped after only six days. Even the originator of the test found that he had come under the influence of power, imaginary power.

I can't understand why anyone could possibly doubt that atrocities are the norm, especially in military prisons.

If we don't stop this and face up to commiting atrocities, we are no better than the people who commited terrorism in New York and Washington, DC. I don't think the "we weren't as bad as they were" holds up in civilized society. An atrocity is an atrocity, regardless of its size.

The Stanford Prison Experiment

http://www.prisonexp.org/slide-1.htm

OE--

If they'd not fought alongside the murderer of innocent Americans, they wouldn't have to worry about Satanic Americans touching their fruity book....or doing anything else to them.

They disrespected human life. We responded.

DAY 1: Rogue GIs unleashed wave of terror in Central Highlands

By MICHAEL D. SALLAH and MITCH WEISS
BLADE STAFF WRITERS c THE BLADE, 2003


QUANG NGAI, Vietnam - For the 10 elderly farmers in the rice paddy, there was nowhere to hide.

The river stretched along one side, mountains on the other.

Approaching quickly in between were the soldiers - an elite U.S. Army unit known as Tiger Force.

Though the farmers were not carrying weapons, it didn't matter: No one was safe when the special force arrived on July 28, 1967.

No one.
With bullets flying, the farmers - slowed by the thick, green plants and muck - dropped one by one to the ground.

Within minutes, it was over. Four were dead, others wounded. Some survived by lying motionless in the mud.

Four soldiers later recalled the assault.

"We knew the farmers were not armed to begin with," one said, "but we shot them anyway."

The unprovoked attack was one of many carried out by the decorated unit in the Vietnam War, an eight-month investigation by The Blade shows.

The platoon - a small, highly trained unit of 45 paratroopers created to spy on enemy forces - violently lost control between May and November, 1967.

For seven months, Tiger Force soldiers moved across the Central Highlands, killing scores of unarmed civilians - in some cases torturing and mutilating them - in a spate of violence never revealed to the American public.

They dropped grenades into underground bunkers where women and children were hiding - creating mass graves - and shot unarmed civilians, in some cases as they begged for their lives.

They frequently tortured and shot prisoners, severing ears and scalps for souvenirs.

A review of thousands of classified Army documents, National Archives records, and radio logs reveals a fighting unit that carried out the longest series of atrocities in the Vietnam War - and commanders who looked the other way.

For 41/2 years, the Army investigated the platoon, finding numerous eyewitnesses and substantiating war crimes. But in the end, no one was prosecuted, the case buried in the archives for three decades.

No one knows how many unarmed men, women, and children were killed by platoon members 36 years ago.

At least 81 were fatally shot or stabbed, records show, but many others were killed in what were clear violations of U.S. military law and the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

Based on more than 100 interviews with The Blade of former Tiger Force soldiers and Vietnamese civilians, the platoon is estimated to have killed hundreds of unarmed civilians in those seven months.

"We weren't keeping count," said former Pvt. Ken Kerney, a California firefighter. "I knew it was wrong, but it was an acceptable practice."

Many details of the period in question are unknown: Records are missing from the National Archives, and several suspects and witnesses have died.

In many cases, the soldiers remember the atrocities and general locations, but not the precise dates.

What's clear is that nearly four decades later, many Vietnamese villagers and former Tiger Force soldiers are deeply troubled by the brutal killing of villagers.

"It was out of control," said Rion Causey, 55, a former platoon medic and now a nuclear engineer. "I still wonder how some people can sleep 30 years later."

Among the newspaper's findings:


Commanders knew about the platoon's atrocities in 1967, and in some cases, encouraged the soldiers to continue the violence.


Two soldiers who tried to stop the atrocities were warned by their commanders to remain quiet before transferring to other units.


The Army investigated 30 war-crime allegations against Tiger Force between February, 1971, and June, 1975, finding a total of 18 soldiers committed crimes, including murder and assault. But no one was ever charged.


Six platoon soldiers suspected of war crimes - including an officer - were allowed to resign during the investigation, escaping military prosecution.


The findings of the investigation were sent to the offices of the secretary of the Army and the secretary of defense, records show, but no action was taken.

Lash wrote:

Face up to who committing atrocities?

Us.
We.
Us.
Nosotros
We.
Us'ens
Ourselves
US

you and me and maybe Bobby McGee.

Joe(Who else is there with whom we would be dismayed?)Nation

PS I've requested several geologists to look over the posts here. They report that while some posts are solid, some are just thick.

So anyway, here I am tonight with the telly on (PBS) and someone is interviewing this Army Captain who is just home from Iraq and the interviewer asks the Cap't "Do you think we did the right thing going into Iraq and the Cap't says right to the camera "Well, I believe that everything happens for a reason and since we are in Iraq there must be a good reason, so yeah we did the right thing going into Iraq."
Now this actually is the very best reason I have heard in the past two years about why we invaded Iraq, don't you all agree?

JTT-- I had no idea such a steaming load was sitting here awaiting my inspection.

Are you under the impression that this impossibly oversized cut and paste has anything to do with anything I said?

That was sad.

NPR is doing a Guy In Iraq series these days, ... to really thoughtful people who feel that they're doing the hard work in a bid to make the world a safer place.