Bush's virtues

'Bush's virtues' is an oxymoron.

0 Replies

Surely you mean a moronoxymoron ?

0 Replies

Bush's virtues?????? #@$%&

0 Replies

It's admirable of you to attempt a rataional conversation on a very volatile topic and due to snide sniping from the sidelines it will likely prove impossible but here goes:

First of all we must look seriously at what he inherited from 8 years of the previous administration:

An economy that was in the first stages of a recession.........his response was a huge tax cut which seems to have worked well had it not been for the astronomical expenses fighting three wars...... Afghanistan, Iraq and the world wide war against Al Queda or Islamic Fascism. We have a 12 trillion dollar economy making it possible to acccomodate the current expenditures.....if......there are no major shocks similar to 9/11. If a nuclear, bio, or chemical attack is successful we will be thrown into an emergency mode which will require maximum effort from everyone to survive and recover.

In North Korea we have the result of a naive, failed attempt on the part of the previous admin to prevent NK from acquiring a Nuke. This must play itself out diplomatically because there is no military option there without risking the deaths of millions in Seoul SK.

He inherited Bin Laden from a gutless, failed series of half hearted attempts to kill BL with cruise missiles. His response to 9/11 has been complete and straight forward. It is exactly as I would have done so I must back it 100%. However, I would have fired the Sec of Transportation long ago because of the chaotic mess with airport security.

There is no anwer to the Iran problem short of massive air strikes on every known nuclear facility and I think that will happen. Every effort must be made to convince the Iranian opposition that we will support regime change by them with whatever it takes short of putting any boots on the ground. I think it will be intirely possible to accomplish what we need to with air power and clandestine operations from within.

The war in Iraq was also inevitable and I think the optimism about a wave of freedom sweeping the area is warranted. At the moment there is not much room for confidence in the current Iraqi PM............the former interim PM Alawi appeared to be doing a much better job. Bush cannot be blamed for the final outcome of self determination in Iraq. He gave them the opportunity........if they screw it up.....so be it.

The most valuable aspect of Bush's policies regarding terrorism and the ME is that he is resolute and unwavering. Any sign of indecision at this point would be disastrous.

On the domestic front he is shooting for the moon on SS but the compromise will result in long term success ......... I hope. They are gradually working out a compromise that will be a long term fix.

Immigration is a very complex problem and no one seems to know the answer..........I certainly don't

Bush is adamant about judicial reform and that can only happen by the installation of judges who will not legislate from the bench.

Last but not least.......I feel strongly that Bush has the best interests of this country and it's citizens uppermost in his mind and will continue working in our best interests. I'm glad I voted for him, especially when the alternative was fully exposed.

0 Replies

Very well said. However, if I may extend on this point of yours...

"In North Korea we have the result of a naive, failed attempt on the part of the previous admin to prevent NK from acquiring a Nuke. This must play itself out diplomatically because there is no military option there without risking the deaths of millions in Seoul SK. "

To say the Clinton Admin was naive is being nice. Madam Albright recommended and Bubba agreed to GIVE the nuke technology to NK. Some naysayers will argue that NK lied to Madam Albright. Yet, one must be stupid or incompetant to believe the NK Govt.

I will add that GW is the first US president to actively look at SS reform. Every former Prez gave lip service to thsi problem, but GW is trying to get something done and he should be commended for it.

0 Replies

So, rayban1 and woiyo, as for Bush's virtues, you have named that

- he is adamant about judicial reform
- he is actively looking at SS reform
- he is resolute and unwavering

That's about all you said, aside from some opposition bashing. Is that all?

0 Replies

* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Cool

0 Replies

Intrepid wrote:

* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

My comments amount to my conclusions/opinions from my observations over the past 20 years and as such I don't need to provide factual evidence but you on the other hand have made specific allegations which need specific evidence if I am to pay any attention to your rant or I will merely write it off as more lies and distortion from the left........your choice.

0 Replies

old europe wrote:

So, rayban1 and woiyo, as for Bush's virtues, you have named that

- he is adamant about judicial reform
- he is actively looking at SS reform
- he is resolute and unwavering

That's about all you said, aside from some opposition bashing. Is that all?

If that is all you derived from my comments then so be it but I believe if you read what I wrote critically there is more to it than that. Of course, I admit this is but a brief synopsis of actions he has taken that are the most important to me. I have some disappointments in some of his actions. Some problems could have been handled better/differently and some are absolutely beyond his control such as the final outcome of the Muslim government in Iraq and he has no control over the actions of that asshole in Mexico who is giving his people pamphlets with instructions of how to get across our border

Gw has many personality faults such as his silly little grin when he is trying to make a point and "cocky" strut but in the final analysis I am satisfied that he doing his best to protect the citizens of this country(I don't give a **** about the rest of the world as he should not, when it comes to American security) and he is relentless in the pursuit of freedom for the world. Peaceful democracies do not make war on each other and he emphasizes the need to rid the world of thugs who oppress their people. Something that Kofi Annon should be fighting instead of covering up the corruption in his domain.

0 Replies

As usual, we have the uninformed/ignorant perspective. Let's have some fun!!!

Intrepid wrote:

* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
LAST I CHECKED, US TREASURY STILL OPERATING AND COURTS NOT NOTIFIED OF BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS

* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
THIS IS NOT BASBALL WHERE WE TRACK RECORDS. DEFICIT SPENDING NOT A NEW CONCEPT

* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
NOT ONE OF GW'S COMPANIES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPCY. HE DID HOWEVER APPROVE LEGISLATION THAT WILL REDUCE BANKRUPCIES

* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
THIS IS INCORRECT BASED ON PERCNETAGE

* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
THAT IS A GOOD THING

* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
A LIE

*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
A LIE

* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
THAT IS THE LENDERS FAULT FOR MAKING BAD DECISIONS

* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
A LIE.

* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
IRRELEVANT

* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
A LIE. THE CONSTITUTION CAN NOT BE AMENDED BY A PRESIDENT

* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
WHAT CRISIS??

* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
A SMART MOVE

* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
A LIE

[

0 Replies

rayban1 wrote:

It's admirable of you to attempt a rataional conversation on a very volatile topic and due to snide sniping from the sidelines it will likely prove impossible but here goes:

First of all we must look seriously at what he inherited from 8 years of the previous administration:

An economy that was in the first stages of a recession.........his response was a huge tax cut which seems to have worked well had it not been for the astronomical expenses fighting three wars...... Afghanistan, Iraq and the world wide war against Al Queda or Islamic Fascism. We have a 12 trillion dollar economy making it possible to acccomodate the current expenditures.....if......there are no major shocks similar to 9/11. If a nuclear, bio, or chemical attack is successful we will be thrown into an emergency mode which will require maximum effort from everyone to survive and recover.

In North Korea we have the result of a naive, failed attempt on the part of the previous admin to prevent NK from acquiring a Nuke. This must play itself out diplomatically because there is no military option there without risking the deaths of millions in Seoul SK.

He inherited Bin Laden from a gutless, failed series of half hearted attempts to kill BL with cruise missiles. His response to 9/11 has been complete and straight forward. It is exactly as I would have done so I must back it 100%. However, I would have fired the Sec of Transportation long ago because of the chaotic mess with airport security.

There is no anwer to the Iran problem short of massive air strikes on every known nuclear facility and I think that will happen. Every effort must be made to convince the Iranian opposition that we will support regime change by them with whatever it takes short of putting any boots on the ground. I think it will be intirely possible to accomplish what we need to with air power and clandestine operations from within.

The war in Iraq was also inevitable and I think the optimism about a wave of freedom sweeping the area is warranted. At the moment there is not much room for confidence in the current Iraqi PM............the former interim PM Alawi appeared to be doing a much better job. Bush cannot be blamed for the final outcome of self determination in Iraq. He gave them the opportunity........if they screw it up.....so be it.

The most valuable aspect of Bush's policies regarding terrorism and the ME is that he is resolute and unwavering. Any sign of indecision at this point would be disastrous.

On the domestic front he is shooting for the moon on SS but the compromise will result in long term success ......... I hope. They are gradually working out a compromise that will be a long term fix.

Immigration is a very complex problem and no one seems to know the answer..........I certainly don't

Bush is adamant about judicial reform and that can only happen by the installation of judges who will not legislate from the bench.

Last but not least.......I feel strongly that Bush has the best interests of this country and it's citizens uppermost in his mind and will continue working in our best interests. I'm glad I voted for him, especially when the alternative was fully exposed.

Ray, I appreciate your opinion but question the basic facts.

Tax rates have NEVER had a discernable effect on growth. The ONLY discernable effect is from deficit spending. If you adjust for the deficit spending under Bush, you will find the growth was not that good according to historical standards. The tax cut didn't do anything, the deficit spending did. Deficit spending could have occurred without the tax cut.

North Korea acquired ZERO nukes from 1992-2002. There was a suspicion they may have tried to go around the treaty signed in 1994 by processing uranium but no evidence to back it up. N Korea only started up its plutonium nuclear program in 2003 after 2 years of Bush fumbling the diplomatic ball. The treaty signed in 1994 was to prevent N Korea from processing plutonium. It did what it was supposed to do until Bush backed out of it. In Jan-March of 2003, North Korea processed enough plutonium for 6 nukes.

Bush inherited Bin Laden and did nothing. In spite of all the whining about how Clinton did "nothing" about Bin Laden for 8 years which is nothing but smoke and mirrors since Bin Laden was NOT a problem for 8 years, we are left to look at the fact that Bush still has not found Bin Laden nor did he do one thing prior to 9/11.

"legislating from the bench" is nothing but rhetorical garbage and ignores the very real purpose and reasoning for the judiciary.

Its one thing to like Bush. Its another to base the praise on half truths.

0 Replies

Parados wrote:

<North Korea acquired ZERO nukes from 1992-2002. There was a suspicion they may have tried to go around the treaty signed in 1994 by processing uranium but no evidence to back it up. N Korea only started up its plutonium nuclear program in 2003 after 2 years of Bush fumbling the diplomatic ball. The treaty signed in 1994 was to prevent N Korea from processing plutonium. It did what it was supposed to do until Bush backed out of it. In Jan-March of 2003, North Korea processed enough plutonium for 6 nukes.>

All of what you said and what I said is actually irrelevant because we don't know for certain what they have or have not done. My question to you is: What should Bush have done? There is no military option as I have said and the fact remains that you cannot make a deal with a liar. They will never allow full access by any verification team so why make the attempt.
Of course you can publicize that you have made a deal as Albright and Clinton did.........all that accomplished was to create a false sense of security.......much better to be honest.

On the other hand we can do something about Iran before they actually complete a bomb but time is growing short according to all reports.

0 Replies

Parados wrote:
Bush inherited Bin Laden and did nothing. In spite of all the whining about how Clinton did "nothing" about Bin Laden for 8 years which is nothing but smoke and mirrors since Bin Laden was NOT a problem for 8 years, we are left to look at the fact that Bush still has not found Bin Laden nor did he do one thing prior to 9/11.

Bin Laden was not a problem for 8 years.......oh really. He declared war on us in 1996 with his religious manifesto and some of Clinton's people sounded the alarm but Clinton would not listen. I admit that the warnings did not get through to Bush either but Bush had the economy, formulation of overall policy and getting his management team to function properly, to worry about.......this is an excuse but a valid one. Then 9/11 hit.

0 Replies

Yeah, and all Clinton had to worry about was the massive effort to kick him out of office by the Republicans.

So we've come around to the Republicans once again being responsible. Maybe if they hadn't been distracting the national attention so much with that farce of an 'investigation' into the sex life of the president, we would have focused more on real problems.

See how the 'blame game' works?

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

rayban1 wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

My comments amount to my conclusions/opinions from my observations over the past 20 years and as such I don't need to provide factual evidence but you on the other hand have made specific allegations which need specific evidence if I am to pay any attention to your rant or I will merely write it off as more lies and distortion from the left........your choice.

Oh, so your conclusions and opinions are based on 20 years of Bush worshipping and mine are to be dismissed at rantings. You can write me off buddy, but you can't get rid of me that easily. I see that your buddy woiyo has concluded that the majority of my statements are lies as well.

On what do the two of you base your allegations of lies?

Quote:

* Attacked and took over two countries.

Afghanistan & Iraq

Quote:

* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

The vice president regularly asks Bush where he will get an extra $1 trillion to pay for his plan to privatize Social Security. The plan lets younger workers create personal investment accounts with a portion of their Social Security contributions, and the extra money is needed to make up what they would be contributing toward current retirees' checks. Bush has never made it clear where this money would come from. But on Tuesday, he said simply it "comes from the surplus." If he meant the projected federal budget surplus, that's a problem, because he's already proposed spending and tax cuts that consume this pot. If he meant the "Social Security surplus," that would further stress the financial future of a program that is already in danger of going broke. "I couldn't figure out what he was saying," said Bob Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group that advocates deficit reduction. As Governor, cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government with billions of borrowed money [/b}

[quote]* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history. [/quote]

July 31, 2004 - The White House forecast yesterday that the U.S. budget deficit for this year will be a highest-ever $445 billion, lower than the administration previously predicted but nearly 20 percent larger than last year's record shortfall.

[quote]* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period. [/quote]

1.5 million record set in 2002

[quote]* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market. [/quote]

Hoover recorded an 18.6 percent decline and now ranks third from the worst, with Richard Nixon in second place with a 23.6 percent fall in his first 18 months. In other words, in the 75-year existence of the S&P 500, no president has seen the stock market index fall as much as one-quarter, before Bush's decline of more than one-third.

[quote]* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. [/quote]

David Paul Hammer first federal prisoner executed iin 37 years

[quote]* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record. [/quote]

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine. Insider trading and other records are sealed and unavailable for viewing

[quote]*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history. [/quote]

What Has Happened Since the Cut-off of Extended Benefits? Congress's decision to cut off benefits quickly had a devastating effect- in the first three months over a million workers ran out of regular benefits without receiving an extension, setting a 30 year record. As of June 2004, over 2 million workers have been denied benefits

[quote]* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period. [/quote]

06/21/03: NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. mortgages in foreclosure climbed to a record high in the first three months of 2003 as job losses and personal bankruptcies forced more people out of their homes, a mortgage industry group said on Friday

[quote]* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history. [/quote]

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas for example

[quote]* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television. [/quote]

Friday, April 16, 2004 - The Press at a Presidential Press Conference -
Well, you can see why George Bush rarely does press conferences (only 12 so far), let alone in prime time (the one on April 13th was only his third). He can't -- or won't -- go off message, and the longer the conference goes on, the more dim the President seems because he's reduced to repeating himself over and over.

[quote]* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history. [/quote]

Bush noted that "an amendment to the Constitution is never to be undertaken lightly," even though that's exactly what he is doing. The previous amendments he has supported range from inserting an accounting device into the document -- a balanced budget -- to a ban on burning the American flag. These are frivolous issues, momentary political fads. None would substantively affect our fundamental right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the central goals of the Constitution. Bush's support for an amendment to mandate a balanced federal budget may be the biggest joke of all. Bush rapidly has created the largest deficits in modern history despite his verbal promises about fiscal prudence.

[quote]* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed. [/quote]

WASHINGTON -- One of the biggest beneficiaries of the California power crisis is a Texas energy conglomerate that more than any other single company has helped bankroll President Bush's political career. Enron Corp. of Houston is among a handful of a new generation of independent electric power brokers and producers that have reaped giant revenue increases from California's power shortages and higher natural gas prices nationwide. The new president's rejection of price controls to hold down soaring electricity costs in the Golden State reflects the views of Enron, the largest wholesaler of electricity and largest owner of natural gas pipelines in North America.

[quote]* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have. [/quote]

Updated: 5:36 p.m. ET Aug. 31, 2004NEW YORK - A record number of Americans planning one last summer road trip this weekend will shell out the highest Labor Day gasoline prices ever seen, and there is little relief in sight, experts said on Tuesday.
A shortage of domestic refineries and ever-growing demand in the United States is likely to turn this summers sticker-shock at the pumps into a routine of higher fuel costs for years to come, analysts said. "We are going to see higher (summertime) gasoline prices for the foreseeable future," said Doug MacIntyre, analyst for the U.S. Energy Information Administration. "Not as high as they are now, but higher than our pre-2004 experience."

[quote]* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans. [/quote]

The House of Representatives have recently voted on the 2004 budget which will cut funding for veteran's health care and benefit programs by nearly $25 billion over the next ten years.

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, and all Clinton had to worry about was the massive effort to kick him out of office by the Republicans.

So we've come around to the Republicans once again being responsible. Maybe if they hadn't been distracting the national attention so much with that farce of an 'investigation' into the sex life of the president, we would have focused more on real problems.

See how the 'blame game' works?

Cycloptichorn

There is certainly plenty of blame to go around but the fact is that when Bin Laden declared war on us was about the time Clinton was thinking with his other head. :wink:

0 Replies

Nice work Intrepid

Rayban:

A person can't declare war on a nation; AQ's declaration of war is immaterial.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

rayban1 wrote:

It's admirable of you to attempt a rataional conversation on a very volatile topic and due to snide sniping from the sidelines it will likely prove impossible but here goes:

First of all we must look seriously at what he inherited from 8 years of the previous administration:

An economy that was in the first stages of a recession.........his response was a huge tax cut which seems to have worked well had it not been for the astronomical expenses fighting three wars...... Afghanistan, Iraq and the world wide war against Al Queda or Islamic Fascism. We have a 12 trillion dollar economy making it possible to acccomodate the current expenditures.....if......there are no major shocks similar to 9/11. If a nuclear, bio, or chemical attack is successful we will be thrown into an emergency mode which will require maximum effort from everyone to survive and recover.

In North Korea we have the result of a naive, failed attempt on the part of the previous admin to prevent NK from acquiring a Nuke. This must play itself out diplomatically because there is no military option there without risking the deaths of millions in Seoul SK.

He inherited Bin Laden from a gutless, failed series of half hearted attempts to kill BL with cruise missiles. His response to 9/11 has been complete and straight forward. It is exactly as I would have done so I must back it 100%. However, I would have fired the Sec of Transportation long ago because of the chaotic mess with airport security.

There is no anwer to the Iran problem short of massive air strikes on every known nuclear facility and I think that will happen. Every effort must be made to convince the Iranian opposition that we will support regime change by them with whatever it takes short of putting any boots on the ground. I think it will be intirely possible to accomplish what we need to with air power and clandestine operations from within.

The war in Iraq was also inevitable and I think the optimism about a wave of freedom sweeping the area is warranted. At the moment there is not much room for confidence in the current Iraqi PM............the former interim PM Alawi appeared to be doing a much better job. Bush cannot be blamed for the final outcome of self determination in Iraq. He gave them the opportunity........if they screw it up.....so be it.

The most valuable aspect of Bush's policies regarding terrorism and the ME is that he is resolute and unwavering. Any sign of indecision at this point would be disastrous.

On the domestic front he is shooting for the moon on SS but the compromise will result in long term success ......... I hope. They are gradually working out a compromise that will be a long term fix.

Immigration is a very complex problem and no one seems to know the answer..........I certainly don't

Bush is adamant about judicial reform and that can only happen by the installation of judges who will not legislate from the bench.

Last but not least.......I feel strongly that Bush has the best interests of this country and it's citizens uppermost in his mind and will continue working in our best interests. I'm glad I voted for him, especially when the alternative was fully exposed.

I'd just like to know, really, why if you're kissing his ass you're engaging in dialogue but if someone is saying he sucks they're sniping from the sidelines. I'm wondering how you get to that. Doesn't seem logical, certainly not fair and balanced. Laughing

0 Replies

Gee, Intrepid all the shouting is bad for your blood pressure........you must have been one of the people who lost their jobs during Clinton's recession.!!!

0 Replies

Bush's virtues

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know