National Identification Cards and Database

"But they do not, unfortunately. ESPECIALLY number three."

Then #3 must change and only we can change it. Unfotunately, the change can not occur overnight. To just say "get Bush out" or "get Kennedy out" is not the answer.

Change has to start at the local level. I detest any so-called politician who lives and dies with his "party" (Dem or Repub).

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Perhaps the government will then pay for the protection of citizens who have their identities stolen? If the gov expect to put all this personal info into a database then they better have extra protections for those systems so that hackers/others cannot break in and steal, use, read the information. What lawsuits there could be if stolen information led to the government having to "fix" the credit information of those who were victimised by their lax security of these records. But what the heck am I talking about? Those jokers won't step up and accept any such responsibility? Really! What was I thinking?

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So far, all we have is speculation over what might happen and what could happen. If you have an American passport, you already have a national ID. It will be no more encompassing than that.

Where in the legislation does it say your medical records, buying habits, purchases, driving history, prescriptions, brand of laxative will be recorded and kept in a datdbase?

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A rather naive question, McG--with a national data base, to which records of your purchases can easily be tagged, a computer saavy child of 12 who hacks into the system can have that information. Those with criminal intent and more sophistication will be able to make hay while the sun shines.

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Ah, but having a passport is not (yet) required. That's different, isn't it?

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bookmark for later

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Setanta wrote:

A rather naive question, McG--with a national data base, to which records of your purchases can easily be tagged, a computer saavy child of 12 who hacks into the system can have that information. Those with criminal intent and more sophistication will be able to make hay while the sun shines.

This would be different from today how?

Explain to me how the government is going to get Walmart to add it's customer buying information into a database for other retailers to use? How is Price-Chopper and Hannaford markets going to feel about the other knowing what their prices are and what their customers are buying? How is the government going to get a national database set up when they can't even get an intelligence database setup?

Let's try to get back to reality folks. The beaurocracy inherit in the system will kill this long before your fears of habeus corpus being done with come true.

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McGentrix wrote:

Setanta wrote:
A rather naive question, McG--with a national data base, to which records of your purchases can easily be tagged, a computer saavy child of 12 who hacks into the system can have that information. Those with criminal intent and more sophistication will be able to make hay while the sun shines.

This would be different from today how?

Explain to me how the government is going to get Walmart to add it's customer buying information into a database for other retailers to use? How is Price-Chopper and Hannaford markets going to feel about the other knowing what their prices are and what their customers are buying? How is the government going to get a national database set up when they can't even get an intelligence database setup?

Let's try to get back to reality folks. The beaurocracy inherit in the system will kill this long before your fears of habeus corpus being done with come true.

The "It can't happen here" mentality is what caused 9/11 in the first place....

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In the event that such identity cards are required, do not fool youself for a moment--banks already provide this data to the IRS, and any system which standardizes the method of identifying individuals for which there is no inherent security will be as full of leaks as a collander. Right now, your social security account number is protected by law. If you don't give it out (and precious few agencies have the right to require it from you, and absolutely no private company can make you provide it), no one else can get it. That would not necessarily be the same if a nationally based system of identity were established.

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McGentrix,

If you are arguing that this bill doesn't change anything, why do we need it?

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Because there is no federal regulations covering how an official identification card is designed, applied for, or created. We need a single ID that is the same from Hawaii to Massachusets. Then no matter where you go to buy your booze, the ID will be the same.

Also, some states are toying with the idea of giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. For the most part, your DL is an official doument. This woould guarantee two things. A uniform method of identification, and an allowance for a DL for immigrants and visa holders.

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McGentrix wrote:

Because there is no federal regulations covering how an official identification card is designed, applied for, or created.

This is a good thing, especially when it applies to private transactions.

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We need a single ID that is the same from Hawaii to Massachusets. Then no matter where you go to buy your booze, the ID will be the same.

I don't think we need this. The necessary "federal regulations covering how an official identification... is applied for" is far too great an intrusion on my personal affairs to make it worthwhile.

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Also, some states are toying with the idea of giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants.

Of course, refusing drivers licenses to residents (legal or illegal) both makes us less secure and serves no purpose other than vindictive spite. But this has been covered in other threads.

But what about states rights. Doesn't this bill go against the 10th Amendment?

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For the most part, your DL is an official doument. This woould guarantee two things. A uniform method of identification, and an allowance for a DL for immigrants and visa holders.

The problem with your "uniform method of identification" is that it would be controlled by the Federal government, would potentially have a big impact on my daily life, and it would be impossible for me to opt out.

If I want to open a bank account, for example, that is between me and the bank -- two private parties. There is no way you can tell me that forcing me to accept more government intrusion into this transaction is a good thing.

You damn liberals McGentrix. You think a Federal Program is the solution for every problem.

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ebrown_p wrote:

You damn liberals McGentrix. You think a Federal Program is the solution for every problem.

Damned good thing i had just been to the bathroom, otherwise i'd have peed my pants laughin' . . .

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ebrown_p wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Because there is no federal regulations covering how an official identification card is designed, applied for, or created.

This is a good thing, especially when it applies to private transactions.

How so? What difference does it make where you get your identification from? A private transaction generally requires no identification to begin with. Why not have a standard form everyone is familiar with.

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We need a single ID that is the same from Hawaii to Massachusets. Then no matter where you go to buy your booze, the ID will be the same.

I don't think we need this. The necessary "federal regulations covering how an official identification... is applied for" is far too great an intrusion on my personal affairs to make it worthwhile.

What intrusion? Your birth certificate and social security number? I have some bad news for you sunshine, they already have that info. They even have your address...

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Also, some states are toying with the idea of giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants.

Of course, refusing drivers licenses to residents (legal or illegal) both makes us less secure and serves no purpose other than vindictive spite. But this has been covered in other threads.

But what about states rights. Doesn't this bill go against the 10th Amendment?

No, this is for a national ID. It does not replace the state issued driver's license or any other form of ID required at state level. That's like saying federal income taxes violate state rights...

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For the most part, your DL is an official doument. This woould guarantee two things. A uniform method of identification, and an allowance for a DL for immigrants and visa holders.

The problem with your "uniform method of identification" is that it would be controlled by the Federal government, would potentially have a big impact on my daily life, and it would be impossible for me to opt out.

If I want to open a bank account, for example, that is between me and the bank -- two private parties. There is no way you can tell me that forcing me to accept more government intrusion into this transaction is a good thing.

Your bank is not a private party and you can not now open a new account without a valid form of ID. This would have zero impact on your current lifestyle. That is unless you are doing something illegal. You're not doing anything illegal, are you?

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You damn liberals McGentrix. You think a Federal Program is the solution for every problem.

Nope. But this is one problem that a federal program is just dandy for.

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How does data protection work in the USA?

Do you have offices, institutions for that?

(Here, every community, county, state and the federal plus the various offices and agencies and bigger private firms etc must have such [independent] personal.)

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Mc G Says - "But this is one problem that a federal program is just dandy for. "

I can not agree with you here.

The efforts of this so-called National Security ID Card is another lame attempt by Govt to ignore the real problem which is illegal immigration.

If Govt, State and Federal, enforced current immigration laws this would not be necessary.

If States standardized issuance of Drivers Licenses to only citizens or Legal Aliens, again, this would not be necessary.

It is just another false attempt by govt to show the public they are doing something, when in reality, they are not.

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woiyo wrote:

Mc G Says - "But this is one problem that a federal program is just dandy for. "

I can not agree with you here.

The efforts of this so-called National Security ID Card is another lame attempt by Govt to ignore the real problem which is illegal immigration.

If Govt, State and Federal, enforced current immigration laws this would not be necessary.

If States standardized issuance of Drivers Licenses to only citizens or Legal Aliens, again, this would not be necessary.

It is just another false attempt by govt to show the public they are doing something, when in reality, they are not.

So we agree that the current system isn't working, so let's try something new.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

How does data protection work in the USA?

Do you have offices, institutions for that?

(Here, every community, county, state and the federal plus the various offices and agencies and bigger private firms etc must have such [independent] personal.)

Shirley you jest . . . most high-ranking civil servants in this country could not find their ass with both hands and a wall chart . . . the thought that they would make provision for the protection of someone else's data is risible . . . see me rit . . .

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Heard a bail bondsman of 30 years say that the best system is already in place as far as illegal immigration, the social security number.

He said a group of bondsman could determine who's suppose to be in this country and who is not pretty quickly if they wanted to.

Sure there are fakes he said, but they are weeded out fairly soon.

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false identification cards of all kinds are of course readily, quickly and cheaply available. i remember watching CBS "60 minutes" not long ago where a reporter in los angeles or s.f. -can't remember exactly - obtained false identy documents of various kinds within a couple of hours. one was made for mike wallace - much to his surprise -. when they showed the immigration cards to one of the senior department officials he was unable to spot the fakes - they had been printed on the official - stolen - document paper.

on the other hand you can be sure that private databanks have all the information about citizens. having worked for many years for an insurance company that insured many hollywood stars , i remember that junior file clerks were always eager to read the files giving fairly intimate details of the stars' lifes.
where do you think the scandal magazines get their information from ? hbg

...don't look over your shoulder, someone is following you ...

if you use a cellphone there is a continuous record of all your calls with the phone company; think about it.

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