7
   

Bernie Sanders First to Sign Pledge to Rally Behind Democratic Nominee.

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2020 08:59 pm
@RABEL222,
No doubt in my mind. There's a reason Trump wants to run against Bernie and that Putin set the troll farms to boost Bernie.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 03:16 pm
Bernie’s gonna start “rallying” behind Biden any minute now. I can just feel it.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 05:29 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Bernie’s gonna start “rallying” behind Biden any minute now. I can just feel it.

How many of Bernie's supporters are sheep that can be herded over to Biden by Bernie, do you suppose?
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 06:33 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

snood wrote:

Bernie’s gonna start “rallying” behind Biden any minute now. I can just feel it.

How many of Bernie's supporters are sheep that can be herded over to Biden by Bernie, do you suppose?


I don’t “suppose” on that, either way. It may even be possible they choose to support or not support, with no “herding” involved.

And I wasn’t talking about them. I was talking about Bernie.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 07:33 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

livinglava wrote:

snood wrote:

Bernie’s gonna start “rallying” behind Biden any minute now. I can just feel it.

How many of Bernie's supporters are sheep that can be herded over to Biden by Bernie, do you suppose?


I don’t “suppose” on that, either way. It may even be possible they choose to support or not support, with no “herding” involved.

And I wasn’t talking about them. I was talking about Bernie.

Obviously Bernie can vote however he wants in November (or later as the case may be)

But what you are implying about him signing a pledge to support Biden is that he has power to cause other votes that would go to him to go to Biden.

That implies that he can rustle up his supporters and corral them to vote for Biden.

My point was that you are assuming Bernie's voters can be corralled by Bernie, and they may just go ahead and vote for him anyway no matter what kinds of pledges he signs or advice he gives.

People who vote for third candidates are tired of two-party politics, so they are trying to make the history books with a significant minority, not transfer their votes to achieve a majority for someone they don't want.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 07:54 pm
@livinglava,
I didn’t imply ****. You inferred a hell of a lot. Bernie was first to sign a pledge to support the nominee. My post was making fun of the fact that he’s going to drag his feet about supporting the nominee. If you want to speculate about who he’s dragging along or whatever, don’t project all that speculation on me. I was commenting on Bernie because he’s too damn full of himself to get the hell off the stage, concede with grace, and uphold the ******* pledge he signed with all that fanfare. That is all I’m saying, and that is all I mean.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 18 Mar, 2020 09:02 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I didn’t imply ****. You inferred a hell of a lot. Bernie was first to sign a pledge to support the nominee. My post was making fun of the fact that he’s going to drag his feet about supporting the nominee.

When you talk about him "supporting the nominee," do you mean with just his own vote, or do you mean by getting others to vote as well because of his support/endorsement?

Quote:
If you want to speculate about who he’s dragging along or whatever, don’t project all that speculation on me. I was commenting on Bernie because he’s too damn full of himself to get the hell off the stage, concede with grace, and uphold the ******* pledge he signed with all that fanfare. That is all I’m saying, and that is all I mean.

What is there for him to 'concede with grace?' The primaries are just primaries. If people want to vote for him in November, they can and will.

Conceding is something you do in an election where the winner actually gets a job/office. At that point you have something to concede. As far as conceding to be the Democratic party nominee, ok he can do that but it doesn't mean anyone has to vote for Biden.

It sounds like what you want him to do is take his name off the ballot by not running as a 3rd party candidate. If he does that, maybe his supporters will end up voting for Biden, idk. I guess it depends on how much they want to risk the Democrats gaining power over the house of representatives and white house simultaneously, and what kind of effects they expect that would have on the world.

There's a lot of talk about "anything is better than Trump," but is a world where the Democratic party has the power of executive order what Sanders supporters really want? And if not, why should they vote for that just because they don't like Trump?

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2020 01:46 am
@snood,
Quote:
Campaign manager Faiz Shakir said in an email to supporters that ... after Sanders votes Wednesday in the Senate, "Bernie and Jane are going to get on a plane back to Vermont. Once there, they'll begin holding conversations with supporters to get input and assess the path forward for our campaign. We will keep you updated as those conversations progress."


I guess you'll have to show a little more patience. The good news is it won't kill you.
snood
 
  5  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2020 07:03 am
@Olivier5,
Oh, I can wait just as well as the next person. You’ll forgive me if, while we all wait for Bernie to announce his intentions, I’m not under the same delusion as his followers that the delay has anything to do with the best interests of the nation.

Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2020 09:40 am
@snood,
Questioning people's intentions or motive is not something I do frequently.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  5  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2020 10:21 am
@snood,
Bernie Sanders probably thinks he can get more concessions at the convention (if we have one) if he remains in the race as he did in 2016, plus he probably doesn't want to disappoint his base. They would turn on him like a pack of wild rabid dogs if dropped out one second before he has to drop out.

I don't think it matters one way or another, I think the democrats have already made up their minds. How it all turns out with Trump, who knows? I sure don't. Never would have thought Hillary would have lost, but she did. However, since Biden did get a good amount of votes in places like Michigan and Missouri and Biden is not hated like Hillary was, I am somewhat more hopeful than I was.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2020 10:50 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

Bernie Sanders probably thinks he can get more concessions at the convention (if we have one) if he remains in the race as he did in 2016, plus he probably doesn't want to disappoint his base. They would turn on him like a pack of wild rabid dogs if dropped out one second before he has to drop out.

I don't think it matters one way or another, I think the democrats have already made up their minds. How it all turns out with Trump, who knows? I sure don't. Never would have thought Hillary would have lost, but she did. However, since Biden did get a good amount of votes in places like Michigan and Missouri and Biden is not hated like Hillary was, I am somewhat more hopeful than I was.

Think of government as having the job of representing as many different points of view as possible in a way that doesn't erupt into war.

To facilitate constructive discourse, or at least to attempt to, they have to move different views around parties and different parties around different offices. Sometimes the GOP is the opposition and sometimes the Democrats are. Taking turns as the opposition causes them to develop their ideologies and prerogatives in a different way than if they were in the White House dealing with the other party in the opposition.

For every asymmetry that happens in government, there is going to be a corresponding asymmetry that favors the other party. So, for example, B Clinton had a Democrat congress to work with his first term, and the Dems took advantage of it to pass a lot of legislation. Then, the GOP took over the congress during his second term and eventually produced the Contract with America, got GW Bush elected, and then that party had a strong position and less opposition.

So really what needs to happen is that some form of balanced governmental formation needs to emerge/evolve where the two parties work together and honor their differences instead of always just trying to subvert them. It's like there needs to be a ceasefire in a war where one party or the other doesn't take advantage of the ceasefire to develop underground tactics to subvert the other party covertly while pretending on the surface to be getting along.

Real democracy is about respecting each others' views and differences as an inevitability of freedom of religion/speech/culture. But since there are differences/conflicts that can't be respected and honored for whatever reason, we have to keep struggling for common ground where doing so is practically guaranteed to be useless/fruitless.

Probably Trump will stay in the White House for another four years, though; and if he doesn't and the house remains leftist, there will be a lot of conflict with the senate and supreme court, and a lot of bad blood will result from putting the GOP through the misery of taking all those executive orders to court to get the supreme court to revoke them. Whatever is achieved by executive order will be subject to later retribution, as is happening now vis-a-vis all the executive-order work that was done by the Obama administration.

So really what has to happen is people just have to bite the bullet and see what they can achieve by finding common ground with the other party and listening to dissent that emerges from outside the two major parties.

Bernie's supporters are right for maintaining their stance, because voicing their opinions is more important than shutting up and rallying behind a Democrat nominee that doesn't really represent them.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  5  
Reply Sat 6 Jun, 2020 09:15 pm
Democrats discover a new team player: (Bernie Sanders).


Published June 6, 2020


Quote:
Many Democratic leaders were irate in 2016 over what they saw as Bernie Sanders’ failure to fully get behind Hillary Clinton and work hard to get her elected.

Four years later, they’re heaping praise on the Vermont senator and his top brass for their efforts to put Joe Biden in the White House.

Sanders dropped out of the primary months earlier than he did in 2016, swiftly and wholeheartedly endorsed Biden, and set up policy task forces with him. Despite opposition from fellow progressives, senior Sanders aides have created super PACs to support Biden. And in an effort to avoid a repeat of the unruly Democratic National Convention during the last presidential election, Sanders’ team has told some of the delegates representing him there to sign a pledge swearing off attacks on Biden and other party leaders.

It has not gone unnoticed.

“Sen. Sanders has been a tremendous force in helping unify the party,” said Neera Tanden, president of the liberal think tank Center for American Progress and a longtime Hillary Clinton aide who has been a vocal critic of Sanders in the past. “I am grateful for his work to urge his supporters to support Biden and fight Trump. He knows the stakes of this election, has always said he will support the nominee, and has been a man of his word.”

The moves by Sanders and his advisers come as Biden is struggling to win over young people, progressives and Latinos, who represented key blocs of Sanders’ base in the primary.

Throughout the primary, Sanders vowed to back the eventual Democratic nominee. His former aides said his current efforts reflect the fact that he badly wants to defeat Trump and personally likes Biden despite their policy differences. A person who spoke with Sanders shortly after Trump’s election in 2016 said he “expressed a high level of frustration that he could only do so much” and “he was very, very frustrated with the people who were continually blaming him” for Clinton’s loss.

Sanders and Clinton never enjoyed a good rapport, and several Sanders staffers said they felt disrespected by the Clinton team in 2016. Two top aides said they had not been consulted about their primary victories in the critical swing states of Wisconsin and Michigan, which Clinton went on to lose in the general election.

Nick Merrill, a spokesman for Clinton, said her campaign hired several staffers from Sanders’ team and “f they had some secret plan for winning Wisconsin, there were infinite avenues by which to convey it.”

Some of Sanders’ allies, in explaining why they formed outside groups to help elect Biden but declined to go that far for Clinton, said they did not expect Trump to win in 2016.

“Many of us who believed that Donald Trump could win in 2016 also believed that Hillary Clinton would win. And that has proven to not be the case,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ longtime adviser and friend who created America’s Progressive Promise, a pro-Biden super PAC. “I feel a great responsibility having worked in this progressive space for 35 years — my entire adult life — at the side of Bernie Sanders to make sure that we stop what is happening in this country.”

America’s Progressive Promise is looking to kick off an eight-week campaign in June aimed at strengthening Biden’s standing among Sanders voters ahead of the party convention, according to a slide show for donors obtained by POLITICO. The group hopes to follow that with efforts in the fall to mobilize young voters, Latinos and liberals, in part by highlighting Biden’s “progressive kitchen-table agenda,” trying to “cut off and undermine third-party alternatives,” and stressing the stakes of the election on climate change. The fundraising deck, first reported by Mother Jones, lists a sample budget of $20 million for TV ads, digital spots, direct mail and other strategies in the battleground states of Arizona, Wisconsin and Michigan.

Dmitri Mehlhorn, a mainstream Democratic donor and top adviser to LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman, said his contributor network is in talks with Weaver’s super PAC and “definitely considering” giving to it.

“It’s a good pitch,” he said. “It’s quite clear that Biden’s electoral coalition is diverse, and so it’s a good idea to have a dedicated focus on the Bernie part of it, and he’s a good person to do that.”

The super PAC’s focus on fostering party unity before the convention underscores how important it is to Sanders’ orbit to prevent a replica of 2016, when Sanders’ supporters even booed Sanders himself when he rallied for Clinton at the convention.

Gregory McKelvey, an Oregon-based Sanders supporter who ran to be one of his delegates, said a Sanders aide told him over the phone that if they see anything about “DemExit” or “Never Joe” on a person’s social media accounts “then you are out” as a delegate.

“They don’t want a messy convention,” he said. “They don’t want the movement to look bad.”

The policy task forces formed by Biden and Sanders, which include high-profile Democratic politicians such as Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and former presidential nominee John Kerry, are crafting proposals to deliver to Biden and the party platform committee before the convention. Sanders’ wife, Jane, has played a “central role” in the development of the task forces, according to a person familiar with her work.

Some Democrats complain privately that Sanders still isn’t doing everything he can to support Biden, noting that he hasn’t turned over his prized email list or fundraised for Biden. A handful of former aides, such as Sanders’ former national press secretary Briahna Joy Gray, have also remained publicly critical of Biden, even as their former boss campaigns for him.

Faiz Shakir, Sanders’ 2020 campaign manager, said that it is possible that Sanders could eventually fundraise for Biden if he announces more progressive policy positions or personnel, which he is hopeful will happen.

“People have to be brought along on the journey,” he said of Sanders’ supporters and small-dollar donors. “For those of us who care about it being effective and valuable as an approach, Joe Biden also has to do some things to kind of earn that support. We want that relationship to be built, not kind of forced and cajoled in a manner that might backfire."

Gray said in an email that she is “pushing for Joe Biden to be responsive to the exigent needs of the vulnerable populations he's relying on to put him in office — including Black Americans” and currently “he is falling far short.” Asked if the Sanders campaign has asked her to support Biden or limit her criticism of him, she said it has not.

Though holdouts such as Gray give them heartburn, Democratic insiders said they appear to be in the minority of ex-Sanders aides.

Like Weaver, former senior Sanders adviser Chuck Rocha created a super PAC aimed at electing Biden, at least in part. Nuestro PAC is working to drum up support for the former vice president and down-ballot candidates among Latino voters in swing states. Rocha said he has millions in commitments from donors and expects to begin campaigning in states in the next 30 days.

“The level and breadth of engagement shows how deeply Sen. Sanders, his staff and supporters who are involved in efforts to help V.P. Biden recognize what we learned in 2016: Democrats can’t take anything for granted when it comes to the urgency of defeating Trump,” said Karen Finney, Clinton’s spokesperson during the 2016 campaign.

Biden’s team has also been heartened by the efforts of Sanders and his advisers.

"Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are friends and share a steadfast belief that we need a government that will deliver for working families,” said Andrew Bates, Biden’s rapid response director. “Sen. Sanders and his team have been extraordinary partners in offering advice and support on the biggest challenges of our day, such as overcoming climate change and rebuilding the American middle class — especially after the COVID-19 outbreak.”

Despite Sanders’ efforts, though, some of his former aides are not sure he'll be successful in persuading the most hardcore anti-Biden voters in his coalition.

“These people don’t listen to anyone,” said Kurt Ehrenberg, Sanders’ past longtime political adviser in New Hampshire. “They just don’t believe in that argument that a little bit better is better. They’re through with that. And I get it, I get it. … There’s just some people who are going to vote for Ralph Nader every time.”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/democrats-discover-a-new-team-player-bernie-sanders/ar-BB157weO?ocid=UE13DHP
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2020 01:39 am
@Real Music,
One difference with 2016 is that Biden has not treated Sanders and his supporters with contempt, and instead welcomes their help. Another one is that in 2016 few people thought Trump could win. Now they know better.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2020 07:11 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

One difference with 2016 is that Biden has not treated Sanders and his supporters with contempt, and instead welcomes their help. Another one is that in 2016 few people thought Trump could win. Now they know better.


Very true
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2020 07:16 am
@snood,
People realize that votes do count and that we cannot afford a 'protest' non vote on the assumption that Trump can't win.

Also: the down tickets are as important as the White House this time. If they didn't vote for Clinton, they didn't vote. If they don't vote for Biden they most likely won't be voting at all.
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2020 08:22 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
People realize that votes do count and that we cannot afford a 'protest' non vote on the assumption that Trump can't win.

This needs to be repeated over and over again.
0 Replies
 
 

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