US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

Copies of the Koran were supplied by US guards to all Gitmo prisoners. Should those who ordered those copies of the Koran to be distributed to the Gitmo prisoners lose their officer commissions?

Let's assume the worst possible treatment of all six of those copies of the Koran which were alleged to be defiled in some way by US guards. Let's assume they were all ripped to shreds, the sheds collected into a pile and then urinated and defecated on, and then burned to a crisp.

What if anything should be done to those guards guilty of such Koran defilement? Should those guards be punished by making them clean Gitmo toilets every four hours for a period of two years? Should such guards be tried and imprisoned for two years? Should such guards be dishonorably discharged?

What if anything should be done to punish captured middle-eastern-neo-nazis? You know: the middle-eastern-neo-nazis are the ones currently murdering hundreds of civilians per month. They are neither signatories to or obeyors of the Geneva Conventions. Nor are they true followers of the Koran. Shall we exteminate them? Shall we incarcerate them and subsequently provide them satisfactory food, clothing and shelter plus copies of the Koran for say 4 years and then release them with their Koran copies? Shall we contrary to the Geneva Conventions indict each and every one, and then put each and everyone on trial in the World Court?

Lash, It seems obvious to this reader that you have bought into the rhetoric of Bush and Company; fear and terrorism. Your assumption that most or all Muslims are supporters of AQ or Osama is so off the track, your other arguments loses any credibility. You must realize that many Muslims in Iraq think the Americans/Christians are the terrorists for having brought an active war to their homeland. I didn't say "all or most," but enough to effect support for the current insurgency. It's also probably true that most of the insurgents are from outside Iraq. The fact of the matter is, not all Americans think as you do. We don't think most Muslims support terrorism, nor are they dangerous to Americans. I personally have Muslim friends in Iran, Egypt and Tanzania, and I treasure them as friends more than I do some Americans.

Ci-- You said this--

Your assumption that most or all Muslims are supporters of AQ or Osama ...

If you read what I wrote, you will see I have not made that assumption. That is an assumption that you made, and it is incorrect.

However, the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the ME--as well as a few other locations in that area--do support OBL.

You only have to look at the polls.

Quote, "However, the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the ME--as well as a few other locations in that area--do support OBL." Please provide some outside, credible, support for this statement.

The middle-eastern-neo-nazis are currently murdering middle eastern civilians by the hundreds each month. Are these neo-nazis the same people you allege are Muslims who "feel that Christianity has been attempting to obliterate Islam for a thousand years?"

Who are the people you allege are Muslim-haters in this county. Are they murdering north american civilians by the hundreds each month? Are they murdering middle eastern civilians by the hundreds each month?

Do you believe President Bush aka "Georgie-boy" has made the world a less congenial place for Americans by attempting to decrease the number of north american and middle eastern civilians murdered by middle-eastern-neo-nazis?

Saudi Arabia

Do many Saudis support bin Laden?
Yes. A Saudi survey taken shortly after the September 11 attacks reported that 95 percent of educated Saudi men between the ages of 25 and 41 backed bin Laden's cause. Prince Nawwaf, the director of the Saudi intelligence service, attributed these feelings to widespread Saudi anger over U.S. support for Israel. Other experts say that many Saudis admire bin Laden's willingness to take on the U.S. and Saudi governments. There is also significant support for bin Laden in the Saudi religious establishment, experts say.

Saudi Muslims supporting Bin Laden...

Links, please.

Majority of Saudi Muslims support Osama Bin Laden.

I'll continue to bring evidence that the majority of ME Muslims support Bin Laden.

I thought it was common knowledge. I read it everywhere.

65% of Pakistani Muslims support OBL.

Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that, in 2003, 58 percent of Indonesians had "confidence" that bin Laden would "do the right thing" in world affairs. That number stands at 55 percent in Jordan, 49 percent in Morocco, 45 percent in Pakistan, and 71 percent among Palestinians


A majority of Muslims in the ME support Osama Bin Laden

Want to check the stas on Yemen, Oman, UAE, Somalia, ...

Indonesia was at 58% support of OBL until we saved them post-tsunami. Now, it is at 23%.

It is a fact.

Bin Laden wants the west to get out of the holy places in Saudi.
No wonder he is supported by muslims wordwide. It is not difficult to get support for an aim like that.

What is not clear to me, is whether Bin Laden has called for all westerners, anywhere, to be killed and if he has, whether a majority of muslims would support that. That seems unlikely.
It depends on the design of the poll, what answers you get.

If Bin Laden wants the US out of so-called holy places (which is laughable. Satan himself couldn't come up with a more diabolical lifestyle than the Sauds have devised), he should fly planes in to Saudi palaces.

They are the ones who contracted with the US to come in and help them find, extract and refine oil.

Bin Laden is what he is. He doesn't hide it. He is for the murder of Westerners. The majority of ME Muslims support it.

It's pretty hard to take the religious convictions of terrorist serously when they use mosques as fortresses from which they launch rockets and grenades.

You certainly are aware of the fact that Christians had fortified churches as well - e.g. during several centuries against the Muslims: the "Fortresses Of Faith" used by the Transsylvanian Saxons from the 13th to the 16th century. Nowadays sites of the World Cultural Heritage. :wink:

(And around my place, every second [old] church is a fortified church.)

I'll point out what Lash pointed out, Walter. That was 500 to 800 years ago. This is now. I would also question the religious convictions of a Christian who would presume to use a Church as a fortress from which to conduct war.

Certainly. But nevertheless such was done for more than 1600 years - at least!

Well when you find Christians using churches for military fortresses these days, please feel free to criticize them. I certainly will. And I won't take them seriously that they put any particular value on a holy place either.

Maybe Muslims don't feel it takes anything away from their religious feelings to use their holy places as military bases (so to speak). Isn't their religion part of every single aspect of their lives? I mean they have holy wars called by their clerics. How would it take away from their seriousness of a religion if they also stored bombs in their churches?

(not defending it, just wanting to know that particular point)

This photo is 60 years old now: churches have ever been in center of fights, by every site and confession.

revel, Good q.