US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

Which certainly explains why they are quick to blow you up or cut off your head if they discover you're an American.

But should that happen, we'll all be enriched by knowing the "critical difference" was because they hate "our Government" and not you in particular.

Really? Where?

Cycloptichorn

Wherever they can. Right now it's principally "over there."

That sounds like there be wisdom in there somewhere .... but??

Wisdom? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5045372,00.html

Casualties From Iraq Insurgency Up in May

Wednesday June 1, 2005 6:31 PM




By BUSHRA JUHI

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi civilian deaths in May from the insurgency increased nearly a third from the previous month, a Health Ministry official said Wednesday.

Separately, an Interior Ministry official said 151 police were killed in May, compared with 86 in April, up 75 percent. He added that at least 325 policemen were wounded in May, compared with 131 in April.

Dr. Sabah al-Araji of the Health Ministry said 434 civilians were killed in May, up from 299 killed in April.

Some 775 civilians also were wounded last month, compared with 598 in April, al-Araji said. The figures were based on people's identity cards and other documentation.

A Defense Ministry official said 85 Iraqi soldiers were killed in May, compared with 40 in April. Another 79 soldiers were wounded, compared with 63 in April, he said.

The increases coincide with the April 28 announcement of Iraq's new Shiite-led government, which was followed by a wave of violence - particularly suicide attacks - believed launched by Sunni insurgents targeting Iraqi security forces and civilians.

It was unclear if the three ministries were working with the same set of data.

A separate count by The Associated Press since April 28 puts the number of slain Iraqi civilians and security personnel, as well as American troops, at 765, with 261 insurgents killed. The figure of 765 dead includes 66 U.S. military personnel, two British soldiers and two U.S. contractors killed in insurgent-related violence.

Defense Ministry spokesman Radhi Badir, who has been collating the figures of insurgents killed in Iraq, told the AP that more than 260 insurgents were killed in May.

``The figure is more than 260, especially if you consider the 125 killed in Qaim and those killed in Haditha and the many suicide bombings this month,'' Badir said.

He was referring to two U.S. military operations, dubbed Matador and New Market, in and around the western Iraqi cities of Qaim and Haditha last month aimed at rooting out insurgents allied to Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The military said 125 insurgents were killed in Qaim and 14 in Haditha. U.S. officials said there were at least 66 suicide bombers last month.

The largest police attacks included Monday's twin-suicide bomb attack that killed at least 27 policemen and wounded 118 in Hillah, about 60 miles south of Baghdad. Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for the attack.

The government has never released an overall inclusive figure for Iraqi deaths.

One's intolerance for cultural diversity is revealed when one tries to dictate how another shall choose to express him or herself. You appear to possess such intolerance.

Sigh! Again you still haven't got it right about how I choose to shout! Here's another example of how I choose to shout:

statement ... statement

I do not use red statements alone to indicate I'm shouting. I also bracket shouting statements with this emoticon:

I use red statements without such emoticon brackets to contrast my responses to the statements of others that they post in blue.


So you "again" question my honesty. The griddle also claims the pot is greasy. The griddle is also known to question the honesty of others with whomever it disagrees. So what? Well for one thing, the poor griddle doesn't understand that it broadcasts for all to see clearly that the griddle is lacking the ability to post a rational rebuttal when it questions another's honesty in able2know.



You certainly have a right to express your opinion, even damn fool opinions about matters of trivial consequence. This last of yours is merely a continuation of your already too long sequence of damn fool opinions about matters of trivial consequence.

WITH WHOM DO YOU MORE CLOSELY IDENTIFY?

The castroites work to:
1. Establish different rules for different people;
2. Satisfy everyone’s needs;
3. Equalize everyone’s capabilities;
4. Allege the theories and solutions advocated by their opponents lack sufficient supporting evidence;
5. Vilify their opponents by false description of their opponent’s position, or by vilifying the associates of their opponents.

The adamsites work to:
1. Establish the same rules for everyone;
2. Satisfy everyone’s wants;
3. Increase everyone’s capabilities;
4. Propose theories and solutions;
5. Compare the evidence supporting proposed theories and solutions to identify the better theory and solution.

Theory: The differences between castroites and adamsites are probably irreconcilable. Look at the evidence.

Who, please, are castroites and adamsites? Was this misposted?

You decide! This was not misposted.

WITH WHOM DO YOU MORE CLOSELY IDENTIFY?

The castroites work to:
1. Establish different rules for different people;
2. Satisfy everyone’s needs;
3. Equalize everyone’s capabilities;
4. Allege the theories and solutions advocated by their opponents lack sufficient supporting evidence;
5. Vilify their opponents by false description of their opponent’s position, or by vilifying the associates of their opponents.

The adamsites work to:
1. Establish the same rules for everyone;
2. Satisfy everyone’s wants;
3. Increase everyone’s capabilities;
4. Propose theories and solutions;
5. Compare the evidence supporting proposed theories and solutions to identify the better theory and solution.

Theory: The differences between castroites and adamsites are probably irreconcilable. Look at the evidence.

ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE

Msr = the number of Iraqi people murdered per year by Saddam's regime = 10,000.

Mbq = the number of Iraqi people murdered per year by those opposed to the new Iraqi government.

Mbq = 0.1 x Msr = 1,000.

Ph = the number of Iraqi prisoners held by the US = 10,000.

Pa = the number of Iraqi prisoners abused by the US.

Pa = 0.01 x Ph = 100.

===========================

According to Britannica

Pop = population of Iraq.
Pop in 2001 = 23,332,000.
Pop in 2003 = 24,683,000.

Dr = death rate of Iraqi population per year from all causes.
Dr in 2001 = 0.0062.
Dr in 2003 = 0.0058.

Dt = total deaths per year in Iraqi from all causes.
Dt in 2001 = Dr x Pop = 145,000.
Dt in 2003 = Dr x Pop = 143,000.

And these statistics proves what?

I guess it proves we haven't reached up to the scale of Saddam Hussien yet.

I realize that even after we know everything (if we ever do) about how much abuse has taken place in our prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan and how far up the directives went, it will still not reach the level of Saddam Hussien or another equally inhumane leader like the North Korean guy. But that is hardly the point.

The point is that in the US, we are not supposed to conduct business this way and I honestly was shocked when those pictures started coming out and the stories coming out about the abuse of detainees at the hands of our own military and intelligence officers. I hate seeing America turing into what it is turing into since George Bush took office.

Oh bloody hell, Ican's not departed after all.

Two ('recent') reports by the Congressional Research Service, obtained by Secrecy News (PDF-data!):

"Iraq Oil: Reserves, Production, and Potential Revenues" (updated April 13, 2005)

"U.S. Embassy in Iraq" (updated April 11, 2005)

Are you still peddling around this false interpretation of your opponents in debate?

It's as tired as your way inaccurate predictions of Iraqi voters, and I'm sure your newly-made-up 'statistics' will get just as tiresome before you stop posting them over and over and over and over and over...

Cycloptichorn

These statistics don't prove anything, but they do provide evidence, perhaps even persuasive evidence, that some allegations previously posted in this forum are false.

UPDATE

RELATIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE

Msr = the number of Iraqi people murdered per year by Saddam's regime = 10,000.

Mbq = the number of Iraqi people murdered per year by those opposed to the new Iraqi government.

Mbq = 0.1 x Msr = 1,000.

Ph = the number of Iraqi prisoners held by the US = 10,000.

Pa = the number of Iraqi prisoners abused by the US.

Pa = 0.01 x Ph = 100.

===========================

FROM BRITANNICA BOOKS OF THE YEAR

Pop = population of Iraq.
Pop in 1995 = 20,413,000.
Pop in 2001 = 23,332,000.
Pop in 2003 = 24,683,000.

Dr = death rate of Iraqi population from all causes.
Dr in 1995 = 0.0101
Dr in 2001 = 0.0062.
Dr in 2003 = 0.0058.

Dt = total deaths per year in Iraq from all causes.
Dt in 1995 = Dr x Pop = 206,000.
Dt in 2001 = Dr x Pop = 145,000.
Dt in 2003 = Dr x Pop = 143,000.

Drav = death rate in Iraq from accidents and violence.
Drav in 1995 = 0.000653.

Dtav = total deaths per year in Iraq from accidents and violence.
Dtav in 1995 = Drav x Pop = 13,000.

============================

PROBABLE IMPLICATIONS

The death rate in Iraq was less in 2003, the year the US invaded Iraq, than it was in 2001, the year the US invaded Afganistan: 2,000 fewer Iraqis died in 2003 than died in 2001.

The US invasion of Iraq did not kill 100,000 Iraqis as others have posted here.

The US invasion of Iraq did not kill even 10,000 Iraqis, the approximate number of Iraqis killed annually by Saddam's regime.

Our invasion of Iraq and its aftermath has actually improved the life expectancy of the Iraqi people.

While it would be better if everyone worldwide were to live healthfully until the age of 131.3 years, it is certainly an improvement worth celebrating when life expectancy is increased even one year.

While any killing is horrible, any reduction of killing is wonderful.

Where are you getting your information from for these false and misleading statistics?

Just being upfront with how I feel, is all.

Cycloptichorn

Which do you believe are false? Why?
Which do you believe are misleading? Why?

The statistics listed under the title of Relative Orders of Magnitude were round offs of estimates I made from countless conflicting news reports. What are your estimates?

The statistics listed under the title of FROM BRITANNICA BOOKS OF THE YEAR were obtained from Britannica Books of the Year. What are your statistics and their sources?

I don't have estimates, because I feel that the data is quite difficult to accurately portray without information that I don't have access to.

I certainly don't believe your numbers about probable civilian deaths since the war has started; why should I? You know as well as I do that there are many, many, many deaths which go unreported.

Though I would say that the part I really take issue with is this



Which is completely made up. You have no data on the percentages of prisoners abused versus the total number held, and you know it.

Cycloptichorn