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US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

Forums: Politics, Iraq, Us, Un
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:20 pm
Lash wrote:
Walter.

You are misleading members by not telling the truth about how old that article is.
Yeah. A YEAR ago.


Sorry if this really is so.

I believed what was said, namely that it was published in mid-May, especially since June 2005 issues of newsletters refer to it.

Sorry again, I really had no intend of misleading anyone.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:29 pm
The French anti-terrorism judge who said Al-Qaida was an increased threat now, and was recruiting more muslim youths in Europe now, said this at the weekend. May 2005
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 11:56 pm
I'll try again.

The data gathered for that article, Walter

was gathered

in May-August of 2004.

The article was written using that data in 2005.

The date the data is gathered, not the date a story is published, tells us of conditions on a certain date.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 12:31 am
No problem with that, Lash, and neither I said different nor the article.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 03:05 am
Quote:
Blatham
Or, which might not, just maybe. There ought to be a term for folks taking this sort of approach to perceiving the world. I think I'll go with "activist deniers".


That's a good description, Blatham. Richard Dawkins, in the article, [link below] posted by Lola on page 15 of the Intelligent Design thread, called people like this, "a simple-mindedly pious audience".

Your appellation or Richard Dawkins', it's not really that it's a tossup, it's that these folks are extremely flexible, actually, mental contortionists. Sometimes they can be simple-minded and pious and at other times they can be activist deniers.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-196-1619264,00.html
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 03:33 am
Lash wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
A naked, menstruating jewish woman perhaps?



Laughing


Two of the rightwing crew's shining lights.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 03:38 am
Ticomaya wrote:


What would be a good term for folks who believe every little bit of bad news about the Bush Administration that comes their way without question? "Gullible liberals"?


I submit, Tico. Resistance is futile, crushed as we are by the mountains of proof that fill your postings. Enough, enough!
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 03:41 am
Lash wrote:
Torture goes on in every war.
Crimes are committed by individuals in every military.
You cannot accuse every President for these events. We would have each President impeached if we did.


When the shoe fits, ...
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 05:36 am
Sounds as if we missed a few details first time through.... the bog gets boggier

Quote:

Informed Comment

Thoughts on the Middle East, History, and Religion Juan Cole is Professor of History at the University of Michigan
1. The Iraqization of Afghanistan A suicide bomber w...
The Iraqization of Afghanistan

A suicide bomber walked into the Abd al-Rabb Mosque in the southwestern city of Qandahar, Afghanistan, at 9 am Wednesday morning and detonated his payload, killing nearly 30 and wounding dozens. The mosque was holding a commemoration for a slain cleric, killed last week, who opposed the Taliban.

The bombing comes against the backdrop of a Taliban spring offensive. Taliban forces launched three attacks on US troops on Monday and took casualties. On Sunday, they clashed with the Afghanistan government troops. Each side claims to have killed 9 of the other, but independent sources quoted by Reuters support the Taliban claim that 9 government troops died in the encounter.

On Monday, a roadside bomb targetting a Nato convoy in Kabul instead killed 7 Afghans.

The reports out of Afghanistan are extremely worrying. It seems clear that the Taliban have learned from observing events in Iraq, and are developing a similar strategy of targetted bombings to destabilize the country and force US troops out.

In switching his attention from Afghanistan to Iraq so abruptly in November, 2001, Bush opened a second front. Second fronts are always problematic, and sometimes they are fatal.

Stephen Biddle's essay on the "Grand Strategy" of the Bush Administration is well worth downloading in pdf and reading carefully. Biddle's language is stately and analysis cogent. But if we wanted to do a blogging-style "shorter Biddle", it would be: "Bush hasn't said who the enemy is or how we could get at him without shooting ourselves in the foot big time."
Wed, Jun 1, 2005 0:35


[Source & links

Repaired link.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 07:13 am
Lash wrote:
Torture goes on in every war.
Crimes are committed by individuals in every military.
You cannot accuse every President for these events. We would have each President impeached if we did.

Understand this line of ridiculous accusation is nothing but partisanship. It has no bearing in reality.


No we should just save our impeachments for presidents who have sexual relations with interns.

Who was the last President who took us to war on false information and then hired out lawyers to get around the Geneva Convention so that we could torture detainees in peace?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 07:33 am
It continues to amaze me that with as much information that is brought into this forum for dissemination that so many continue to be so naive and uninformed.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 07:51 am
McGentrix wrote:
It continues to amaze me that with as much information that is brought into this forum for dissemination that so many continue to be so naive and uninformed.


Vrooooomm, vrooooooommmm, vroooooooooooooooooommmm

Batten down the hatches, folks! It's gonna be another windy one.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 07:55 am
McGentrix wrote:
It continues to amaze me that with as much information that is brought into this forum for dissemination that so many continue to be so naive and uninformed.


This going some place?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 08:37 am
Very likely, it is going the way of all of McG's contributions . . . a sneer, much condescension, and much ado about nothing . . .
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 08:45 am
You know I love being the center of attention and all, but I was harkening back to Revel's last post.

Quote:
Who was the last President who took us to war on false information and then hired out lawyers to get around the Geneva Convention so that we could torture detainees in peace?


Are you guys defending this statement, or just bashing mine because it threatens you?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 08:46 am
Quote, "It continues to amaze me that with as much information that is brought into this forum for dissemination that so many continue to be so naive and uninformed." Sounds like McG is finally catching on why his posts continue to get smeared with shet.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 08:47 am
I cannot defend that statement personally, because the lawyers alluded to were already in government employ--the Shrub didn't have to go out to find shysters who would try to give him "@ss cover" on this one . . .
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 09:06 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Quote, "It continues to amaze me that with as much information that is brought into this forum for dissemination that so many continue to be so naive and uninformed." Sounds like McG is finally catching on why his posts continue to get smeared with shet.


Only by those it refers to C.I.

I notice you try often...
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 09:44 am
revel wrote:
Lash wrote:
Torture goes on in every war.
Crimes are committed by individuals in every military.
You cannot accuse every President for these events. We would have each President impeached if we did.

Understand this line of ridiculous accusation is nothing but partisanship. It has no bearing in reality.


No we should just save our impeachments for presidents who have sexual relations with interns.

Who was the last President who took us to war on false information and then hired out lawyers to get around the Geneva Convention so that we could torture detainees in peace?


That's a good question. There wasn't one before. This is the first.
I've got a feeling you knew that already.

Remember though, we've been informed now that torture isn't really torture unless it leads to permanent injury or death. That ought to bring the figures right down by say, what, 60%?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 10:07 am
Tico
Quote:
Does it matter? No. They still hate us, Cyclops.


No, they hate our Government and our Actions. Not Us, or our Freedom. The terrorists have made this quite clear.

This is a critical difference.

Lash,

It doesn't matter that torture has gone on in the past. All that matters is that we are getting caught doing it now. It also seems the top guys had approved of it/had discussions about whether they could be held liable with their lawyers (who got big promotions, btw). This looks terrible.

Hawks, get it through your heads! We will NEVER win this fight without winning the hearts and minds of the Muslim people to our side; and that won't happen while we are beating their innocents to death and torturing people!

Cycloptichorn
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