0
   

US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:40 pm
revel wrote:
McG, even with the full paragraph, it still reads the same. Bush is telling any would be terrorist to come to Iraq and fight our military there where there are innocent Iraqi civilians.
...


No .... he conveyed the message that if you think attacking us is going to cause us to leave quickly, you are mistaken. Much as one might make a statement advising would be kidnappers that if you kidnap any US citizen, we will not negotiate with you and we won't pay any ransom. The intent of the message is to effect fewer kidnappings.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:42 pm
interesting observation
Quote:
Of course Bush's opponents only heard "bring 'em on" and ignored the rest of his comment.

Would you guess that this is a recent development in politics, only really getting its feet on the ground during the Bush Administration? Do you think this developed because it was inspiried by someone like Dean or some other liberal maniac from the liberal left? Probably so but I kinda think this sort of taken out of context thing is pretty much a staple of just the ways things work the world over since maybe 8,000 BCE. Or, perhaps you made the post just to enlighten the readers on how you caught this right up front there being so attentive and all to save us the difficulty of adding 1 and 1. Personally I'm not aware of anyone from either the left or the right ever taking anything out of context just to make the other side look bad. It's certainly a nasty thing to do if it ever really happens, don't you think?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:45 pm
I'm sorry, but I can not bring myself to have a discussion with an anarchist. Even one as liberal as yourself.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:50 pm
Good thinking there, I'm inclined to agree with you on that. Besides it wouldn't be fair since I have an 8th grade education and all, just wouldn't be fair.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 01:57 pm
I wouldn't say being "fair" has anything to do with it so much as extraordinarily displeasing as it were.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:02 pm
Tico
Quote:
Much as one might make a statement advising would be kidnappers that if you kidnap any US citizen, we will not negotiate with you and we won't pay any ransom. The intent of the message is to effect fewer kidnappings.


No, the correct parallel message would be:

"We aren't going to negotiate with kidnappers and we won't pay any Ransom. So go ahead and try."

You have to add in the part where you dare your enemies to attack in order to test your resolve if you want to have an analagous statement, Tico.

That's the jackassery in the statement. The smug dare to the opponent to attack.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:18 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Tico
Quote:
Much as one might make a statement advising would be kidnappers that if you kidnap any US citizen, we will not negotiate with you and we won't pay any ransom. The intent of the message is to effect fewer kidnappings.


No, the correct parallel message would be:

"We aren't going to negotiate with kidnappers and we won't pay any Ransom. So go ahead and try."

You have to add in the part where you dare your enemies to attack in order to test your resolve if you want to have an analagous statement, Tico.

That's the jackassery in the statement. The smug dare to the opponent to attack.

Cycloptichorn


The "dare" as you call it was superfluous and without a doubt uneccessary, but to claim it itself cost the US any lives is ridiculous in my view.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:20 pm
As ridiculous as claiming that the Newsweek story cost lives? I'm okay with that as long as you are; they have roughly the same level of significance.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:23 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
As ridiculous as claiming that the Newsweek story cost lives? I'm okay with that as long as you are; they have roughly the same level of significance.

Cycloptichorn


I never made that claim. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:28 pm
lol, okay

Cheers

Cycloptichorn

ps It begins

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/31/the_i_word/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:29 pm
Cyclo, There's a big difference between 1) Newsweek reporting news of past events, vs 2) a president saying to radicals, "bring it on!"
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:31 pm
Yeah, well, I of course agree with ya ci.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:37 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Cyclo, There's a big difference between 1) Newsweek reporting news of past events, vs 2) a president saying to radicals, "bring it on!"


There's also a big difference between your #1 above and what Newsweek did.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:38 pm
Not really. Unless by 'big' you mean 'small.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:43 pm
Quote:
Monday, May 30, 2005

Sunday, May 22 nd, 2005
Good morning…
I want to continue my talk about the hot news of the world outside Iraq… for the last week.
The Guantanamo prison scandal through the Newsweek, and the stories about degrading the Holy Quran inside that prison. Then, the battle between the American Senate and the British Member of Parliament George Galloway, in a hearing session about accusations of receiving bribes from Saddam, through the Oil for Food program, and that would justify his opposition to the war against Iraq, as they say.
******************************
The Newsweek is a weekly magazine, and each time I buy it, every now and then, I prepare myself for the poisons it prints against Islam and the Muslims, I feel pain, and wonder at the Arabic silence towards what is issued by it, and other poisonous western media, (not all, but most).
There were news of demonstrations in Muslim countries' streets, like Afghanistan and Pakistan, and official protests from Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries against that report, and the demand of an investigation, and the punishment of those responsible for these oversteppings.
After the Abu Gahreb prison scandal, this one came to solidify the deep chasm between the American administration, and the Islamic nations…
The new report of Newsweek says: "…and Washington shook by the demonstrations and violence acts in the streets of the Islamic countries, and the burning of the American flag, in a declaration of anger and protest…the officials were concerned for the stability of the moderate regimes in the region…", (of course, like the Afghanistan and Pakistan regimes).
That is a nice name: moderate regimes!
Is this a substitute for other words, like: friendly, cooperative, obedient, or dummy regimes!
Many expressions, used by the oppressed people against their governments, that do not represent the people's wishes.
************************
And on the Internet media nets, there is another book that was published in America, its writer is an American official who worked in Guantanamo prison for six months…and saw the transgressions and humiliations of the prisoner's dignity there, so he wrote about it, and the newspapers spread it around, to confirm the truth of what happened there.
And the intensity of the conflict increased…
The leaderships of the American administration, like Gondalisa Rise, declared that the American government respects Islam, and the Quran, and that it will start an investigation about the subject, and punish those responsible for the event…
And of course, at the same time, we were following up the news about the American soldier who was involved in the Abu Gahreb prison scandal, and all the aberrant immoral acts she and her colleagues did there… her name is Sabrina Harman, age 27, and her punishment for the charges against her were expected to be some 5-6 years in prison, or so the international news nets said.
But on the next day, I listened to a report on the B.B.C. radio, saying that the judges gave her 6 months for 5 charges, acquitting her from a sixth charge. All the charges were shameful and embarrassing, if they were committed by a man, so, how would they seem when committed by a young woman?
Anyway, her fellow soldiers said that she declared that she alone bears the responsibility of her actions, and no one else, that she feels ashamed of what she did, and the shame she brought to her career and colleagues…so, her colleagues said that she proved how noble and brave a human she is!!!
Ha…ha…ha…
So, the young lady turned out to be noble, and the victims were the fallen villains?
Ha…ha…ha…
What a sick media, or a deformed society. I don't know where is the mistake in the subject? But it gives a clue to the way of punishing those who trespass over the human law, who degrade the human dignity… there, in the home of the American justice.
Is this the way the investigators will behave, in the case of degrading the Holy Quran in Guantanamo?
And they always wonder: why do the nations of the world hate us? They must feel jealous from us!!
This is how I sometimes read the analysis of those who do not understand the enmity of the world's people against the American governments, (for I do not think there is a special enmity against the American people there). But by the passage of time, if the people couldn't put pressure on their government, to change its policies towards people, it will get some of the anger and hostility, because it takes the responsibility of keeping such hostile governments in ruling. Isn't there some democracy, and elections?
Who brings such aggressive symbols into rule, except the people?
So, the people bear the responsibility, one way or another….one day.

*******************************************
Then there is the case of the charges against George Galloway, because he stood up, strongly and bravely and said: No, to war on Iraq, so, they accused him of taking money from Saddam Hussein, in an illegal way, to support him and prevent the war…
Galloway said that he met Saddam Hussein the same number of times that Ramsfeild met Saddam Hussein, but the difference was that Ramsfeild sold weapons to Saddam… regardless of his faults; the only important thing was that there were deals, and benefits.
Was this justified?
Years latter, they turned against him, picturing him as the twentieth century monster, then destroyed him, and all Iraq, without mercy.
George Galloway said he was against Saddam and his acts, but he refused the war in pity for the Iraqi people.
And I understand what he suffers from them…
When we started writing on this site, (my sons and I), we received many poisonous, spiteful e-mails, in which they said: Ha…you are Bathists, you are against the war because you love Saddam!
This is how they imagine the people of the world are, only two kinds: one kind with the American government, and its philosophy in life.
And the other kind, those against these ideas, merely criminals, beneficiaries, or such…
They didn't realize yet that there are factions of people who look upon things by the eye of justice, without partiality, or benefits.
Of course they couldn't believe what we say, they always think there are some materialistic reasons pushing people to take certain attitudes.
Do they believe in the existence of principals? Do they believe that there are people who live in this life, who respect principals, and measure right from wrong by it?
I know that a person who hasn't got a certain thing, could not give back that thing… and we cannot open a possible, fruitful, positive dialogue with these people, because they are deaf, blind, and dumb…….
Do not tire yourself in a dialogue with them.
***************************************
I found a wonderful book in the bookshop a few weeks a go, and I bought it. Reading it opens the eyes and minds, in spit of what's in it of misery, and painful facts.
But it's a great book, and everyone needs to read it, and learn from it…
The book is called: the War Crimes, what the public should know.
The book contains articles and photographs, written and photographed by tens of journalists in most world countries, and in various cities that were subjected to wars, local and international conflicts, old or new.
Palestine, Iraq, then Bosnia and Herzegovina, Rwanda, Vietnam, Cambodia, the Latin American countries, Syrilanka, and other far east countries…
Hanan Ashrawi, from Palestine, wrote the introduction, then, Lawrence Fishler, then, other men and women who decided to put the truth in front of the public's eyes, because the world had so much transgressions, and injustice, and the Security council, and the leaders of the major countries do not act in a responsible way to solve the problems of wars and destruction, that befall the people on earth.
There must be a new formation to the fundamentals of human dealings, as the international, humane law that exists now has proved its failure and incapacity, and its inability to stop the transgressions that take place against Man, and earth.
The war crimes are numerous…but they are being committed every day, and no one cares, or defends, or raises a head in protest…because then he shall find some one to accuse him of corruption and bribery, like they did with Galloway, they shall burry the truth, and make up the stories they want the public to believe.
********************************
The book has an article about the unlawfulness of the war on Iraq… the unlawfulness of the Guantanamo prison…according to the international laws that are agreed upon.
And the number of war crimes, that made me think; how many of those were committed in Iraq, until now?
The crime of killing or targeting civilians, or their possessions….
The crime of killing or targeting journalists…
The crime of humiliating and torturing prisoners, and degrading their human dignity…
The crime of dropping cluster bombs upon towns, villages, and civilian farms…
The crime of sieging a town, bombing it, demolishing its houses randomly, and forcing its people out, as refugees…
The crime of arresting civilians, locking them up without clear charges, or giving them the right of a fair trial….
The crime of shooting civilians, turning the streets into a free firing field….
Did I mention them all? I don't think so… but I do believe they were all committed against Iraqis, by the occupation forces.
Who shall hold them responsible? Who shall accomplish justice, and punish them?
And then, there are some fools who write e-mails to me, saying: Faiza, we love to read your writings, we do sympathize with you, but the problem, my dear, is that you lived under the shadow of a regime who poisoned your thoughts, and washed your brains, so you became western- haters, in general, and America, in particular.
Ha…ha…ha.
By GOD, I do not know who is the fool among us, and who is the brain-washed; I, or those naïve, letter writers?
*****************************
Translated by May/Baghdad.

# posted by faiza @ 3:22 PM
Saturday, May 28, 2005


http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 02:50 pm
"Reporting news of past events" hardly includes the hack job by Newsweek of reporting as fact that "sources" told them that FBI investigators had confirmed that US Military personnel had flushed a Koran down a toilet, when in reality it was the unsubstantiated allegations of a former Gitmo prisoner as told to Newsweek by ananonymous source who can't remember what he read or where he read it.

Newsweek wrote:
Investigators probing interrogation abuses at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay have confirmed some infractions alleged in internal FBI e-mails that surfaced late last year. Among the previously unreported cases, sources tell NEWSWEEK: interrogators, in an attempt to rattle suspects, flushed a Qur'an down a toilet and led a detainee around with a collar and dog leash.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 03:10 pm
Meanwhile, the gov't has admitted that disrespect to the Qur'an has taken place... just not flushing it down a toilet.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 03:14 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Meanwhile, the gov't has admitted that disrespect to the Qur'an has taken place... just not flushing it down a toilet.


Which might include accidentally or purposefully dropping the book on the ground, or touching it with "unclean" hands. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 03:23 pm
Does it matter? It is enough that it has pissed off a lot of Muslims who we don't want to be pissed off at us.

Hearts and minds, Tico...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2005 03:40 pm
Does it matter? No. They still hate us, Cyclops.

But I've an idea: Let's write a newspaper account about it and stir up the Islamic community's anger. Yeah! That's what we should do ... and you know why we should do it? Because the story is out there and it needs to be told because we need to expose the US Military for the evil organization it is.

We don't want the military getting away with dropping a Koran on the ground, now do we?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 10/07/2024 at 12:29:46