Foxfyre wrote:The Germans certainly weren't thrilled when we marched to Berlin, ...
Just a teeny weeny correction: you didn't march to Berlin (better, you had, I think).
Don't confuse the issue with mere facts, Walter, it's very uncivil.
What you forgot Walter is that not only does she have her own opinion but also her own supporting facts.
I believe "we" were allied forces, not merely Americans. Nice transition from the current discussion though.
Yes, obviously they do not wish to answer anything that could possibly interfere with the anti-war mantra
which is different from the war mantra in what way?
Fox, you pressured me for an answer, you got it, now, what do YOU have to say about it?
Cycloptichorn
Cyclop, no, actually you said there is no good option. But you suggested that we could not leave. So the next question was, do you think we should stay and finish the job? And your response was there there was no job left to finish.
So you think we should just pack up and leave then?
Cyclop, no, actually you said there is no good option. But you suggested that we could not leave. So the next question was, do you think we should stay and finish the job? And your response was there there was no job left to finish.
So you think we should just pack up and leave then?
I already said what I think. I'm interested in hearing what YOU think is the Christian thing to do, and please explain to me why Christianity would dictate that we would do what you suggest.
Cycloptichorn
I only mentioned Christianity because JTT did. Notice that my questions were framed in quotation marks. I don't see this as a Christian issue at all so far as policy is concerned. The only place Christianity would come in is in the individual moral convictions of those who embrace that faith.
I am curious though about what the moral basis might be if we pack up and go home right now. Or what the moral basis might be in how we see our mission if we decide to stay.
My personal belief is if you're going to fight a war you don't give a damn what anybody else thinks about it. You go in and win it as quickly and with as little loss of life of the innocent as possible. My personal suggestion is not to drag it out as we did in Vietnam, and my personal suggestion is that those who want the war to end would accomplish that better by getting behind the President and the troops and encouraging them to win it, clean up our mess, leave the people in good shape, and come home.
Protest makes sense only if it 1) is to not go to war at all or 2) is to stop and come home at this moment in time.
No. 1 is no longer an option. Do you advocate No. 2? Or is No. 3, win the war, the best solution to the dilemma we are currently in?
Precisely how do you describe winning the war, Fox? Killing all of those annoying Muslims who do not accept a foreign occupation and simply won't go away?
This is a serious question. I hear "win the war," until i could absolutely retch. Please be so good as to give a detailed and plausible description of winning that war, and how you suggest we might accomplish that.
If we persist, we will win and humanity will win.
If we do not persist, we will lose and humanity will lose.
We will persist!
We will win!
Humanity will win!
If you are wrong, shouting will not make you right. If you are right, shouting will not facilitate the event . . . you do rather more shouting than is necessary . . .
Setanta wrote:If you are wrong, shouting will not make you right. If you are right, shouting will not facilitate the event . . . you do rather more shouting than is necessary . . .
You do rather more false accusing than is necessary.
As I told you this past week in another thread: I'm not shouting; I am emphasizing.
As I told you this past week in another thread this is how I shout:
blah, blah
Except to give you this and the example in the other thread, I have not shouted in able2know.
The etiquette of the net is that bold-faced, large type is shouting . . . that all caps is shouting . . . as with the definition of pre-emptive, you are not in a position as an individual to dictate to others what a common understanding will be . . . you shout around here all the damned time, and your protestations to the contrary strike me as lies . . .
Again, while not advocating a nuclear option, I used the example of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. It was an absolutely horrific thing to do, something unimaginable to people who despise and deplore war as I do. But in the final analysis, it stopped the war and it is a virtual certainty that it saved many many lives, both Japanese and American.
Okay we're in another war with people even more fanatical than the kamikazi pilots and with the same kind of mentality. It will be debated for generations to come whether we were or were not justified in attacking Iraq. But we're there.
My vote is to win this thing, clean up our mess, leave the people in good shape, and come home. How we do that I will leave up to military minds as I don't know how to do that. I am quite confident that those in the military do, however.
I think our best option is to get behind them and let them know we want them to do it as quickly and expediently as it can be done. We will trust they will follow their mandates to spare the innocent as much as possible. But we don't otherwise expect them to pull their punches or worry about political correctness when it comes to bombing a mosque used as a military fortess, etc.
My suggestion is for the American people to give no encouragement whatsoever to the enemy, and the enemy is anyone willing to kill or maim our soldiers or innocent people. I think we should expect a genuine white flag, but otherwise I think we should give no quarter. I think if American stands behind the effort, the resistance will crumble far more quickly than it otherwise will.
The longer the terrorists believe they have a chance to break our will, the longer the war will go on and on and on.
Foxfyre wrote:My vote is to win this thing, clean up our mess, leave the people in good shape, and come home. How we do that I will leave up to military minds as I don't know how to do that. I am quite confident that those in the military do, however.
I fully agree with what has been described elsewhere as the "you broke it, you fix it" thesis. I have no quibble with you on that account. I think your confidence in the professional military is sound; i think your confidence in the political controllers of the military would be laughably absurd, were so many people not dying of the consequences of the patent incomptence displayed in the management of this war.
