US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

There is nothing blatantly false in declaring Doctors without Borders to be a left wing oriented Organization.

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Mortkat wrote:

If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

The very first division of MSF was founded in Switzerland only in 1981.

For another source to the already by Anon quoted see here - there you can find a detailed summary of the history of the The "French Doctors" Movement.

Mortkat wrote:

There is nothing blatantly false in declaring Doctors without Borders to be a.

In 1968, Koucher ran to Biafra near Nigeria to assist a country in famine, saying, "I ran to Biafra because I was too young for Guernica, Auschwitz, Oradour and Setif."(Time Magazine).

If you consider such left wing - which always sounds negative in your posts - it's okay for me.

Helping others seems to be something abhorring in your eyes.

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Walter,

I love it when Pussycat starts backpeddling. Reverse is a common direction for him. He well knows I was taking his timeline to task, not that it's a left wing organization.

Another Mortkat "exaggeration" bites the dust! Nice work Walter, you are calm, straight forward poster with a penchant for the truth!

Anon

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Mortkat wrote:

Walter Hinteler is apparently not aware that the US is much farther advanced than Germany in Scholarship since any listing of Great Universities in the world shows that about 80 of the top Hundred Universities in the World are indeed found in the USA. Germany, on the other hand, lists only two or three.

The Germans, at one time, had great researchers and scientists, but they decided that they were the master race and they either chased out or killed all of their great researchers or scientists who happened to be GERMAN JEWS.

Sorry, Walter Hinteler, Germany now is just second or third rate!

What does any of this have to do with this topic?

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The New Iraq Democracy:

Violence has increased across Iraq after a lull following the Dec. 15 parliamentary elections, with at least two dozen people -- including two U.S. soldiers -- killed in shootings and bombings Monday and 18 on Sunday.

Officials said insurgents were trying to deepen the political turmoil surrounding the contested vote. Preliminary figures have given a big lead to the religious Shiite bloc that controls the current interim government.

The new violence came as three opposition groups threatened a wave of protests and civil disobedience if fraud charges are not properly investigated. The warning came from the secular Iraqi National List, headed by former Shiite Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, and two Sunni Arab groups.

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AN HYPOTHETICAL

Suppose we discovered how to build a perfect LDM (i.e., lie detector machine), and built it and used it to determine which of our war prisoners were actual terrorist combatants and which were not.

Further suppose we used the LDM with each and every one of our war prisoners.

Hypothetical Cases:

1. The LDM reveals that 10% of our war prisoners are terrorist combatants;

2. The LDM reveals that 90% of our war prisoners are terrorist combatants;

3. The LDM reveals that 50% of our war prisoners are terrorist combatants;

4. The LDM reveals that 0% of our war prisoners are terrorist combatants;

5. The LDM reveals that 100% of our war prisoners are terrorist combatants.

What action would you recommend in the event of each one of the above five hypothetical cases?

I ask this question in another attempt to understand the perspectives of those who have criticized the USA war prisoner policy.

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icant, Most people that discuss Bush and Iraq are on opposite poles from you. Most Americans do not approve torture of prisoners or unauthorized wiretaps of American citizens for any reason. You are an abomination of Americanism.

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Anon-Voter wrote:

Walter,

OK, time for a fact check. As usual, Mortkat is wrong!

Quote:

About MSF:
The MSF role in emergency medical aid
Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international humanitarian aid organisation that provides emergency medical assistance to populations in danger in more than 70 countries.

MSF has been setting up emergency medical aid missions around the world since 1971.

MFS Timeline Starting in 1971

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/aboutus/timeline.cfm

More facts which fly in the face of Mortkats dubious reality!

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/aboutus/index.cfm

Quote:
Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international independent medical humanitarian organization that delivers emergency aid to people affected by armed conflict, epidemics, natural or man-made disasters, or exclusion from health care in more than 70 countries.

MSF was founded in 1971 as a nongovernmental organization to both provide emergency medical assistance and bear witness publicly to the plight of the people it assists. A private nonprofit association, MSF is an international network with sections in 19 countries.

Perhaps you should check your facts before you make such blatently false statements Dear Mortkat!!!

What in any of this post of yours, AV, contradicts what Mortkat actually posted?

Mortkat wrote:

Anyone who searches the Internet will quickly discover that "Doctors without Borders" is a left wing group based in Switzerland. Furthermore, anyone who believes anything issuing from many of the America Haters in the UN does not realize that the UN was the corrupt core of the Oil for Food program.

As Ican so sagely commented- Why should we believe the prisoners?

You may just as well believe the monster Saddam who "claims" that he has been abused by his captors--LOL

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cicerone imposter wrote:

icant, Most people that discuss Bush and Iraq are on opposite poles from you. Most Americans do not approve torture of prisoners or unauthorized wiretaps of American citizens for any reason. You are an abomination of Americanism.

How do you know, cicerone imposter, what most Americans approve or disapprove?

I suspect you do not know "what most Americans approve or disapprove."

Absent evidence to support your claims plus your continuing stream of falsities, you, cicerone imposter, appear to me to be nothing more than an abominable, bigoted demagogic, fool and/or fraud.

I sincerely hope for your sake, cicerone imposter, that you are merely posing to be something you are not as part of some political, social or psychological experiment of yours.

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Ican,

The timeline he presents is wrong, as well as where it originated. I believe he also says that the Swiss founded the group when in fact it was the FRENCH.

Anon

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Mortkat wrote:

If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

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Anon-Voter wrote:

Ican,

The timeline he presents is wrong, as well as where it originated. I believe he also says that the Swiss founded the group when in fact it was the FRENCH.

Anon

Mortkat's post says zero about a timeline for Doctors without Borders.

Mortkat's post says zero about where or who founded Doctors without Borders.

emphasis is mine

Mortkat wrote:

Anyone who searches the Internet will quickly discover that "Doctors without Borders" is a left wing group based in Switzerland. Furthermore, anyone who believes anything issuing from many of the America Haters in the UN does not realize that the UN was the corrupt core of the Oil for Food program.

As Ican so sagely commented- Why should we believe the prisoners?

You may just as well believe the monster Saddam who "claims" that he has been abused by his captors--LOL

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lmur wrote:

Mortkat wrote:
If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

I'll repost this for you as you apparently did not see lmurs post.

Anon

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Quote:

Truth from Bush? .... egad and forsooth Confused

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Gels, Many Bushco supporters think he doesn't lie - ever. LOL

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source

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lmur wrote:

Mortkat wrote:
If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

Mortkat made a mistake -- albeit minor -- too. In his original postion on this topic he did not state where Doctors without Borders was founded. He stated where it was founded subsequently in response to a false characterization of his original post.

emphasis added by me

Mortkat wrote:

Anyone who searches the Internet will quickly discover that "Doctors without Borders" is a left wing group based in Switzerland. Furthermore, anyone who believes anything issuing from many of the America Haters in the UN does not realize that the UN was the corrupt core of the Oil for Food program.

As Ican so sagely commented- Why should we believe the prisoners?

You may just as well believe the monster Saddam who "claims" that he has been abused by his captors--LOL

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ican711nm wrote:

lmur wrote:
Mortkat wrote:
If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

Mortkat made a mistake -- albeit minor -- too. In his original postion on this topic he did not state where Doctors without Borders was founded. He stated where it was founded subsequently in response to a false characterization of his original post.

It's nit-picking, but since I was indeed involved in this, I perhaps may response to ican's post:

Mortkat wrote:

Anyone who searches the Internet will quickly discover that "Doctors without Borders" is a left wing group based in Switzerland.

At first, I just tried ti give to a hint that MSF isn't based in Switzerland.

The response to this was

Mortkat wrote:

If Walter Hinteler will check, he will discover that Doctors without Borders was indeed founded in Switzerland as I stated.

Neither is true - but has only peripherally to do with the topic.

My father, who really was an ultra conservative, would turn in his grave if someone though, he donated money to a left wing group: he just gave the money to some younger collegues, who's work he admired because he'd liked to do the same if he had been able to do so.

I've more than doubts, if medical assistance, on the spot, 'sans border' can be done politically.

Sorry for the interruption.

Carry on.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

...
My father, who really was an ultra conservative, would turn in his grave if someone though, he donated money to a left wing group: he just gave the money to some younger collegues, who's work he admired because he'd liked to do the same if he had been able to do so.

I've more than doubts, if medical assistance, on the spot, 'sans border' can be done politically.
...

Thank you! This post truly deals with what Mortkat originally posted on Doctors without Borders.

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Bush: U.S. to stay in Iraq till war is won
President does not set timetable for withdrawal of troops

Thursday, December 1, 2005; Posted: 12:22 a.m. EST (05:22 GMT)

ANNAPOLIS, Maryland (CNN) -- President Bush countered diminishing support for the U.S.-led Iraq war on Wednesday in a speech outlining what he believes must be accomplished before withdrawing any forces.

The president did not satisfy critics who've called for a definitive timetable for troops to pull out, saying it would send the wrong message to terrorists and certain conditions must be met first.

"As Iraqi forces gain experience and the political process advances, we will be able to decrease our troop level in Iraq without losing our capability to defeat the terrorists," Bush said in his address before students at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. (Watch Bush speak before enthusiastic students at Annapolis -- 4:57)

He rejected calls by some members of Congress that U.S. forces withdraw immediately. (Reaction from lawmakers)

"Setting an artificial deadline to withdraw would vindicate the terrorist tactics of beheadings and suicide bombings and mass murder and invite new attacks on America," Bush said.

"To all who wear the uniform, I make you this pledge: America will not run in the face of car bombers and assassins so long as I am your commander-in-chief."

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US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

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