ican711nm wrote:McTag wrote: Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
Where wealth accumulates, and men decay
Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey
Where wealth is equal, and men decay
Oh so rotten, a rule to hasten life's end
Where blocked are the able, and freedom rends
You must have a different version of Goldsmith, ican.
As far as I know, that verse reads:
Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey,
Where wealth accumulates, and men decay:
Princes and lords may flourish, or may fade;
A breath can make them, as a breath has made;
But a bold peasantry, their country's pride,
When once destroyed can never be supplied.
Walter Hinteler wrote: ... You must have a different version of Goldsmith, ican.
Nay! Simply a different perspective than Goldsmith's, Walter.
FOR EXAMPLE
In 1620 the Pilgrims established a colony wherein all shared their tools and other resources equally. Each family in the group was required to share their production equally among all the members of the group.
Half died the first year.
The surviving Pilgrims decided to divide their tools and other remaining resources equally among each family. Thereafter, the production of each family became that familiy's property to consume, sell or otherwise distribute as they pleased.
Subsequently the remaining Pilgrims survived and prospered.
ican711nm wrote:Walter Hinteler wrote: ... You must have a different version of Goldsmith, ican.
Nay! Simply a different perspective than Goldsmith's, Walter.
FOR EXAMPLE
In 1620 the Pilgrims established a colony wherein all shared their tools and other resources equally. Each family in the group was required to share their production equally among all the members of the group.
Half died the first year.
The surviving Pilgrims decided to divide their tools and other remaining resources equally among each family. Thereafter, the production of each family became that familiy's property to consume, sell or otherwise distribute as they pleased.
Subsequently the remaining Pilgrims survived and prospered.
I read, they needed the help and charity of the native Indians to survive the first winter.
Then, they murdered the Indians.
Merry Christmas.
Was it really oil, WMD's, bring down Hussein, install democracy ........or what?
Quote:Can There Be Peace in a World with Gene Food?
by F. William Engdahl, Germany
F. William Engdahl, journalist and author, presented his latest book "Seeds of Destruction: The Geopolitics of Gene-ocide" at this year's XIII «Mut zur Ethik» conference in Feldkirch, Austria. The book, which is already top of the best-seller list in Croatia, will soon be published in German and English. Engdahl's alarming paper on the connection between Gene food and peace was an important contribution to the subject of the conference "What Does it Take to Bring About More Peace in the World?". His conclusion was that unless international laws are respected there will be no peace.
My chosen title may strike some of you as funny. I can assure you it is anything but funny. Given what's at stake today with the mass proliferation of genetically modified organisms or GMOs, in the entire human food chain, a state of war is pre-determined unless we act soon to change the situation. In presenting my new book, and it is an honor I can tell you to have it first in Croatian before it appears in even English or German, "Seeds of Destruction: The Geopolitics of Gene-ocide" I would like to make several points briefly.
The proliferation of GMO crops and food across the world today, by the strictures of the Nuremburg process, can and ought to be declared a "crime against humanity." Until we recognize the actual nature of this, no peace at all will be possible, least of all a just peace for all people.
At the heart of this is the issue of genocide. I cite the United Nations' 1948 "Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide." The defining article is Article II:
Article II:
genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
Article IV: Persons committing genocide
shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals.
I would like to take up three cases dealing with use of Genetically Modified Organisms to illustrate why we must call for the enforcement of the international law against genocide and bring cases against governments, scientists and private corporations complicit in foisting GMO agriculture on our populations: First, GMO crops in Iraq. Then, how Argentina was overrun with GMO crops. Finally, I deal with a small San Diego biotech company.
1. Iraq gets American seeds of democracy
"The reason we are in Iraq is to plant the seeds of democracy so they flourish there and spread to the entire region of authoritarianism." - George W. Bush
When George W. Bush spoke of planting the "seeds of democracy" few realized he might have had in mind Monsanto seeds. Following the US occupation of Iraq in May 2003, Paul Bremer III, a former Kissinger Associate, was Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority or CPA. Bremer held control over every area, reporting to Donald Rumsfeld.
Bremer issued 100 new binding laws to govern Iraq in April 2004. The US-mandated laws, or Orders as they were called, were to insure that the economy of Iraq would be remade along lines of a US-mandated "free-market" model. "The idea is to make this completely a free market," said a spokesman for USAID's Office of Iraq Reconstruction.
Order 81
Among the Bremer decrees was Order 81, "Patent, Industrial Design, Undisclosed Information, Integrated Circuits and Plant Variety Law".
Order 81 gave holders of patents on certain plant varieties, all large foreign multinationals, absolute rights for 20 years over use of their seeds in Iraqi agriculture. The protected plant varieties were Genetically Modified (GMO) plants.
Iraqi seed treasure destroyed
Iraqis have farmed since approximately 8,000 B.C. and developed the seed variety for almost every variety of wheat used in the world today. They did this through a system of saving a share of seeds and replanting, developing new naturally resistant hybrid varieties through the new plantings. That now is de facto illegal under Order 81. For years, the Iraqis held samples of these precious natural seed varieties in a national seed bank, located in Abu Ghraib. Following the US occupation, the invaluable seed bank in Abu Ghraib vanished.
The CPA's Order 81 turned the food future of Iraq over to global multinational private companies. The details of Order 81 were written for Paul Bremer by Monsanto Corporation, the world's leading purveyor of GMO seeds and crops.
No seeds to plant
In the aftermath of the Iraq war, Iraqi farmers were forced to turn to their government Agriculture Ministry for new seeds. Order 81's declared aim was "to ensure good quality seeds in Iraq and to facilitate Iraq's accession into the World Trade Organization." "Good quality" was defined by the occupation authority. As soon as Order 81 had been issued, USAID began delivering thousands of tons of US-origin "high-quality, certified wheat seed" for subsidized, initially near cost-free distribution through the Agriculture Ministry, to desperate Iraqi farmers. The USAID refused to allow independent scientists to determine whether the seed was GMO seed or not.
The purpose of Order 81 was to facilitate the establishment of a new seed market in Iraq, where transnational corporations could sell their seeds - genetically modified-- which farmers would have to purchase afresh every season. The old Iraqi constitution had prohibited private ownership of biological resources. The new US-imposed patent law introduced a system of monopoly rights over seeds.
"Let them eat
Pasta?"
Six kinds of wheat seeds were to be developed for Iraq. Three were to be used for farmers to grow wheat that is made into pasta
' That meant that 50% of the grains being developed by the US in Iraq after 2004 were meant for export as pasta was a food foreign to the Iraqi diet.
In spring 2004 as Order 81 was promulgated by Bremer's CPA, supporters of the radical young cleric Moqtada al Sadr were protesting the closing of their newspaper, al Hawza, by US military police. The CPA accused al Hawza of publishing "false articles" that could "pose the real threat of violence." As an example, it cited an article that claimed Bremer was, "pursuing a policy of starving the Iraqi people to make them preoccupied with procuring their daily bread so they do not have the chance to demand their political and individual freedoms."
Continuation ...
CPA web page
Well whaddaya know.
Come in George, comment on that.
(Never for a moment losing sight of the fact we're there to purely bring democracy to the region)
IRAQ: Exit or Empire?
IRAQ: Exit or Empire?
Gary Hart
05.10.2005
Whether the U.S. does or does not intend to establish a permanent military presence in Iraq is a factual question.
The Bush administration has repeatedly stated that it intends to withdraw American military forces as the new Iraqi government develops the means, with our help, to defend itself and provide its own security.
To my knowledge, the Administration has not positively stated, nor has it been definitively asked by the press or Congress, whether it intends to withdraw ALL troops.
There is one way to find out. Are we, or are we not, building permanent military bases in Iraq? Yes or no? If we are withdrawing ALL troops, we do not need permanent bases. If we are building military bases, we do not intend to withdraw all our troops. Simple as that.
Though the press has been unaccountably lax in pursuing this question, the best evidence, mostly from non-"mainstream" sources, is that we are building somewhere between 12 and 14 permanent military bases. Permanent in this context means concrete and steel not tents and trench latrines.
If the goal of the Project for a New American Century, as it thereafter became the Bush administration, was to overthrow Saddam Hussein, install a friendly government in Baghdad, set up a permanent political and military presence in Iraq, and dominate the behavior of the region (including securing oil supplies), then you build permanent bases for some kind of permanent American military presence. If the goal was to spread democracy and freedom, then you don't.
So, are we? Or are we not?
That should be "...purely to bring...", of course, in my last post, sorry.
(note for Ican: irony)
McTag wrote:That should be "...purely to bring...", of course, in my last post, sorry.
(note for Ican: irony)
I always said those I-ronians were not to be trusted. I mean, how can you tell?
I wonder if Bush will ever stand trial for all those missing from around the world.
Pinochet ruled fit to stand trial
Gen Pinochet will have to remain under house arrest
Chile's top court has ruled that former military ruler Gen Augusto Pinochet is fit to stand trial over the 1975 disappearance of political opponents.
The supreme court rejected an appeal that the 90-year-old should not be sent for trial because of poor health.
Correspondents say this latest ruling is a significant victory for the families of the disappeared.
The decision comes weeks after a judge ruled that there was enough evidence for the general to face trial.
In the case that became known as Operation Colombo, at least 119 people were believed to have been abducted and later murdered.
The former regime said all had died in clashes between rival opposition groups.
New tests
Gen Pinochet had his legal immunity stripped in the Operation Colombo case after being found fit to stand trial in September.
The supreme court upheld the decision on Monday by three votes to two.
It is still considering a defence appeal over three more cases relating to the disappearances. A decision on them is expected on Tuesday.
In the past, courts had on several occasions dismissed cases against Gen Pinochet on medical grounds.
However, a round of new court-ordered medical tests found that the general was in good enough health to face criminal charges.
The supreme court ordered that he should remain under house arrest in relation to the charges.
The general is also facing tax evasion charges in connection to his foreign bank accounts.
More than 3,000 people were killed when Gen Pinochet was in power from 1973 to 1990.
McTag wrote: I read, they needed the help and charity of the native Indians to survive the first winter.
Yes, the native Indians were helpful and charitable to the pilgrims. Nonetheless half the pilgrims died the first year.
McTag wrote: Then, they murdered the Indians.
The pilgrims did not murder any native Indians. Several generations after the first generation of pilgrims died, some other immigrants, also of european descent, murdered some native Indians .
Does that mean to you that
all european immigrants murdered
all native Indians, because
some european immigrants murdered
some native Indians?
Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!
McTag wrote:Well whaddaya know.
Come in George, comment on that.
(Never for a moment losing sight of the fact we're there [purely to bring] democracy to the region)
First, to
protect ourselves against al Qaeda making Iraq its new training base, the USA must
remove al Qaeda from Iraq.
Second, to
reduce the probability of al Qaeda re-establishing itself in Iraq, we must
establish democracy in Iraq.
Third, to
minimize the probability of al Qaeda re-establishing itself in Iraq, we must
secure democracy in Iraq.
Fourth, to
insure that Iraqis take full responsibility for subsequently securing their own democracy in Iraq, we must
leave Iraq.
I have repeatedly posted a preponderance of evidence supporting the following allegations.
Al Qaeda and the al Qaeda religion are a deadly threat to a major part of humanity. Al Qaeda must be exterminated or it will attempt to exterminate that major part of humanity that chooses not to adopt the al Qaeda religion. Anyone or government that abets al Qaeda, is likewise a deadly threat to that same part of humanity.
My most recent post of a preponderance of evidence that supports these allegations will be found at:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1714233#1714233
Al Qaeda moved into Iraq December 2001 (after 9/11/2001 and after the USA invasion of Afghanistan October 2001) and established new training camps there. Al Qaeda grew substantially by the time of our invasion of Iraq in March 2003, because Saddam's government tolerated (i.e., harbored) al Qaeda in Iraq.
My most recent post of a preponderance of evidence that supports these allegations will be found at:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1714240#1714240
My most recent post of my answer to the question whether any of this evidence supports reasons that were among Bush’s original reasons for invading Iraq, will be found at:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1714246#1714246
President Bush said this on 12/14/2005:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4528982.stm
A stable Iraq was in the interests of both the Iraqi and American people, he said. And he accused critics in Washington, many of whom had originally supported the decision to invade, of playing pure politics.
Victory will be achieved by meeting certain objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq's democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people, and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country.
Re: IRAQ: Exit or Empire?
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:IRAQ: Exit or Empire?
Gary Hart
05.10.2005
Whether the U.S. does or does not intend to establish a permanent military presence in Iraq is a factual question.
...
There is one way to find out. Are we, or are we not, building permanent military bases in Iraq? Yes or no? If we are withdrawing ALL troops, we do not need permanent bases. If we are building military bases, we do not intend to withdraw all our troops. Simple as that.
...
Gary Hart, baby, we are building permanent military bases in Iraq to house the permanent Iraqi military defense forces, after we leave.
"Gary Hart, baby, we are building permanent military bases in Iraq to house the permanent Iraqi military defense forces, after we leave. "
How generous of the American taxpayers - while we still find Americans living in tents after Katrina..
cicerone imposter wrote:I wonder if Bush will ever stand trial for all those missing from around the world.
Who is missing? What is your evidence?
When did they become missing? What is your evidence?
Which ones do you think Bush caused to be missing? What is your evidence?
cicerone imposter wrote:"Gary Hart, baby, we are building permanent military bases in Iraq to house the permanent Iraqi military defense forces, after we leave. "
How generous of the American taxpayers - while we still find Americans living in tents after Katrina..
Generous, hell!
It's in our own self-interest to help the Iraqis become able to secure their own democracy with their own military defense forces without permanent help from us.
ican711nm wrote:
First, to protect ourselves against al Qaeda making Iraq its new training base, the USA must remove al Qaeda from Iraq.
Second, to reduce the probability of al Qaeda re-establishing itself in Iraq, we must establish democracy in Iraq.
Third, to minimize the probability of al Qaeda re-establishing itself in Iraq, we must secure democracy in Iraq.
Fourth, to insure that Iraqis take full responsibility for subsequently securing their own democracy in Iraq, we must leave Iraq.
ican't, All good questions, but a) this administration doesn't allow legal represetation for prisoners, b) we don't know how many have died since their capture, and c) nobody has a "body count" of how many were captured and put into our prisons.
For those who still thinks the elections this month was a huge progress for Iraq:
December 26, 2005
Election Results Suggest Small Role For Sunnis in Security Forces
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 26 - Partial voting results made public today from the recent parliamentary election suggest that in contrast to the remarkable surge in Sunni Arab participation in the political process, Sunnis still have comparatively little representation in the Iraqi security forces.
It has long been suspected that Sunni Arabs are severely underrepresented in the new military and police.
But the new voting results, which elections officials say include most of the ballots cast by Iraqi military and police, are a sign of how complete the reversal of the fortunes has been for the Sunnis, who ran those security forces under Saddam Hussein. Voting in Iraq has been largely along ethnic and sectarian lines.
The results are significant because Sunni Arabs, who make up about 20 percent of Iraq, came out in large numbers for the election in hopes of taking a share of political power along with the Shiites and Kurds. Sunnis say they fear that the security forces will be used against them. And American military commanders believe it is crucial to build an Iraqi army that is representative of Iraq's ethnicity - or risk the consequences of Shiite and Kurdish forces attempting on their own to pacify insurgent hotbeds dominated by Sunni Arab militants.
The newly released figures also suggest that Kurdish pesh merga militiamen have a heavily disproportionate presence in the security forces, perhaps even more so than the Shiites, who are three-fifths of the population.
The early voting figures are far from exact and constitute nothing like a census of the security forces. And it is impossible to know whether Sunni Arab soldiers and police officers turned out to vote to the same high degree as the overall Sunni population. A spokesman for the American military command that oversees training of the Iraqi forces also said that while he did not know the security forces' ethnic mix, he believed that there were more Sunni troops than the election data suggested.
Yet the results provide some strong clues to the composition and political sympathies of Iraqi soldiers, a crucial yet elusive data set in a country struggling to overcome deep sectarian divisions and defeat an entrenched insurgency dominated by one ethnic group, Sunni Arabs.
The data released today are just one sliver of preliminary electoral results that indicate that Shiites will once again dominate the new Iraqi parliament.
After a respite following the election, more than 70 Iraqis have been slain in the past four days, including more than 20 killed today in a string of ambushes and car bombings that could have led to a far higher death toll.
At least six car bombs detonated in Baghdad, killing five Iraqis. In Baquba, north of the capital, five policeman died in an early morning attack. And a rocket-propelled grenade killed an American soldier on patrol in the capital.
Though heavy election-day turnout won Sunni Arab parties a sizable block of parliamentary seats, the Sunnis have accused the newly ascendant Shiites of widespread electoral fraud and demanded a new election. Sunnis, and some secular Shiites, have threatened to boycott the new government.
But any chance of a large-scale election rerun has been all but ruled out. Officials from the Iraqi independent electoral commission said today that they saw no reason for new elections - an opinion seconded by the chief United Nations elections official here.
"We do think there might have been fraud in a few isolated places, but we don't see this widespread fraud people are talking about," Craig Jenness, head of the United Nations electoral assistance team in Iraq, said in an interview this evening. "It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty credible given the circumstances," he said, adding that "there's nothing we see that would suggest a rerun is warranted."
Though more attention has been focused on the ethnic makeup of the Iraqi government, the American military is very sensitive to the perception that the Iraqi forces have few Sunnis, especially in the north, where Kurdish officials have made plain their desire to expand their territory into Sunni Arab and Turkmen regions. To many American commanders, a proportionate representation of Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish soldiers is vital to Iraq's long-term stability and cohesion.
But on that score there still appears to be a distance to go, the new election results suggest. The disparity was revealed in a tally of one special category of votes that, according to election supervisors here, consisted overwhelmingly of ballots cast by members of the Iraqi security forces. The category also included votes from hospital patients and prison inmates.
In that category, 45 percent of votes were cast for the main Kurdish slate of candidates - compared with a combined total of just 7 percent for the three main Sunni Arab political parties. The principal Shiite political alliance received 30 percent of the votes in the category. The heavily disproportionate votes for the Kurds and the slight showing for the Sunnis was primarily a reflection of their relative numbers in the security forces, election officials here said.
By contrast, while final election results won't be available for another week, Iraqi press reports have estimated that Kurds and Sunni Arabs each received perhaps 20 percent of the overall national vote for seats in the national parliament. The main Shiite political alliance is expected to take slightly less than 50 percent of the seats in parliament.
Lt. Col. Fred Wellman, spokesman for the military command that oversees Iraqi training, said some Iraqi soldiers voted near their homes on Dec. 15 and would not have been included in the special tally, though he said he did not know whether those included a disproportionate number of soldiers from any one ethnic group.
Colonel Wellman said he did not have detailed estimates of the ethnic composition of the Iraqi military, though he said Sunni Arab representation "clearly lags." He also emphasized the efforts being made to recruit Sunni soldiers, including more than 4,000 who have been signed up in the past six months.
"One of the biggest goals of this enterprise is to build an army that reflects the national makeup of Iraq and deploys those units away from their home," he said. "There are great efforts to bring Sunnis into fold and balance out the army as much as possible."
In addition to the special tally of votes from the military, prisons and hospitals, the Iraqi election commission also released separate figures showing that Iraqis living abroad voted evenly for the main Kurdish and Shiite coalitions, with each receiving 30 percent of the overseas vote. The figures reflected the high number of expatriates who fled the ruthless regime of Saddam Hussein, whose government and military was dominated by and favored Sunni Arabs.
In the overseas tally, the three main Sunni Arab parties combined received about 7.5 percent of the vote. And the slate of candidates backed by former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite and former Baathist, received 12 percent.
At a news conference in Baghdad, a spokesman for the electoral commission, Farid Ayar, said that officials probing allegations of vote fraud had found concrete examples of double voting and other problems at three expatriate polling sites in Istanbul, Turkey. Similar problems, he said, were found in Diyala Province, north of Baghdad.
But in a later interview Mr. Farid said, "All the complaints will not affect the final results."
Abdul Razzaq al-Saiedi, Mona Mahmoud, Khalid al-Ansary and Omar al-Neami contributed reporting for this article.
How many really believe the elections shows "progresss?"
CI,
We have indeed given them U.S. style elections. Corrupt, third world, fixed elections. Now, That's progress!!
Anon
but true
