US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

Well so far we've been doing a dandy of a job, ain't we? It just seems to me that the Iraq war had the opposite effect of stemming the tide of terrorism rather than helping anything.

Quote:

In al Qaeda's 1996 fatwah: http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm [scroll down]
Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

Quote:

In al Qaeda's 1998 fatwah:
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm [scroll down]
~when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: "I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped", Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.

~to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.

Quote:

In al Qaeda's 2004 fatwah:
http://www.mail-rchive.com/[email protected]/msg00035.html
Once again, we repeat our call and send this clear message to our Muslim brothers, warning against fellowship with the Crusaders, the Americans, Westerners and all idols in the Arab Gulf. Muslims should not associate with them anywhere, be it in their homes, complexes or travel with them by any means of transportation.

Prophet Muhammad said "I am free from who lives among idols".

No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.

Everything related to them such as complexes, bases, means of transportation, especially Western and American Airlines, will be our main and direct targets in our forthcoming operations on our path of Jihad that we, with Allah's Power, will not turn away from.

Quote:

The non-partisan 9/11 Commission Report in Chapter 2.5, page 67, note 78.
www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm
The Taliban seemed to open the doors to all who wanted to come to Afghanistan to train in the camps. The alliance with the Taliban provided al Qaeda a sanctuary in which to train and indoctrinate fighters and terrorists, import weapons, forge ties with other jihad groups and leaders, and plot and staff terrorist schemes. While Bin Ladin maintained his own al Qaeda guesthouses and camps for vetting and training recruits, he also provided support to and benefited from the broad infrastructure of such facilities in Afghanistan made available to the global network of Islamist movements. U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction in Bin Ladin-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 9/11 at 10,000 to 20,000.78

Quote:

From al Qaeda’s 1996 fatwah:
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm [scroll down].
Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".

We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in less than twenty four hours!

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

"Are you being intentionally obtuse, or just wilfully blind?"

Which does it seem like to you?

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

"Are you being intentionally obtuse, or just wilfully blind?"

Which does it seem like to you?

I can't decide. Must not know you well enough.

Ican I think the threat from Iraqi AQ would have been less had we not invaded and lost control of Iraq as there was hardly any AQ of any consequence before we invaded. As far as AQ and other Islamic militants in general being less or more if we had not invaded, I don't think there is any way of knowing for sure. But I do think had we not concentrated all our energy on Iraq we would have had more resources and energy to concentrate on world wide terrorism as a whole. Obsessions are never good and since Bush came in office Iraq has been ours.

In brief, I think we have to first regain control of Iraq in order to subsequently exterminate worldwide terrorism.

I havent read all of Podhoretz's piece McG but its the ususal neocon story. It doesnt change much. The US is in a global struggle against evil. Evil this time round being comm...no sorry nazism no Islamism.

Yeah thats right the US has to go around the world fighting the Islamists who are determined on world domination. This is no time for the faint hearted, its a noble struggle and will unite America in its determination to .......... continued p94


yawn

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I havent read all of Podhoretz's piece McG but its the ususal neocon story. It doesnt change much. The US is in a global struggle against evil. Evil this time round being comm...no sorry nazism no Islamism.

Yeah thats right the US has to go around the world fighting the Islamists who are determined on world domination. This is no time for the faint hearted, its a noble struggle and will unite America in its determination to .......... continued p94


yawn

Been away for awhile, but I see little has changed ... same apologists apologizing. Yawn, Pt. II.

Okay ... just once for old time's sake ... the U.S. doesn't always have to "go around the world fighting the Islamists." Sometimes they deliver fast & free to our homes ... Kenya, NYC, Spain, Jordan and last summer ... London.

Maybe the telly was off that day?

You never consider, do you, or you conveniently ignore the fact, that "terrorist" attacks on the west are the RESULT of what the west is doing in the ME, and has been doing for 100 years or more, and not the CAUSE of it.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A January 2003 CIA report raised doubts about claims that al Qaeda sent operatives to Iraq to acquire chemical and biological weapons -- dramatic assertions that were repeated weeks later by then-Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations in making the case for the invasion of Iraq.

CNN on Thursday obtained a CIA document that outlined the history of the claim, which originated in 2002 with a captured al Qaeda operative who recanted two years later.

The CIA report appears to support a recently declassified document that revealed the Defense Intelligence Agency thought in February 2002 that the source, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, was lying to interrogators.

Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, this week released the DIA report in alleging the administration cited faulty intelligence to argue for the March 2003 invasion of Iraq.

In February 2003, al-Libi, a senior military trainer for al Qaeda in Afghanistan, claimed the terrorist network "sent operatives to Iraq" to acquire weapons. His claim was reported in a CIA paper seven months later entitled, "Iraqi Support for Terrorism."

The January 2003 updated version of the report added a key point: "That the detainee was not in a position to know if any training had taken place."

The document obtained by CNN was provided recently to Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, who have been pressing for an investigation into the ways in which the Bush administration used intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the war.

In January and February 2003 President Bush and Powell each made dramatic assertions that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda and argued for military action to prevent Baghdad from providing its suspected stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.

In his speech to the U.N. Security Council, Powell did not name al-Libi, but described the U.S. source as a senior terrorist operative.

"My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence. I will cite some examples, and these are from human sources," Powell told the world body.

He said the al Qaeda operative told interrogators that al Qaeda labs in Afghanistan were not capable of manufacturing chemical or biological agents.

"Where did they go? Where did they look? They went to Iraq," Powell said. "None of this should come as a surprise to any of us. Terrorism has been a tool used by Saddam [Hussein] for decades."

No such stockpiles turned up after the U.S.-led invasion, and the independent commission investigating al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on New York and Washington found no evidence of a collaborative relationship between the two entities.

Al-Libi recanted in January 2004 a number of claims he made while in custody, according to the CIA document. His reversal prompted the CIA to order all prior intelligence suggesting Iraq trained al Qaeda personnel in chemical and biological warfare "recalled and re-issued" in February 2004.

A U.S. intelligence official said the information from al-Libi used by the president and Powell in early 2003 was "the best we had at the time" and that the CIA informed policymakers as soon as he recanted his claims.

Another official, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, told reporters Thursday that the intelligence used to support the war had been developed over a "long period of time."

"We all looked at the same intelligence, and most people -- on the intelligence -- reached the same conclusion," Hadley said, referring to the present and previous administrations and to Congress.

A senior administration official said Bush would "directly take on some of these false attacks by some Democratic leaders" during a Veterans Day speech Friday.

CNN's David Ensor contributed to this report

And while you're pouting and sneering, why not run over to any good library and do the research to find out who trained and equipped bin Laden's boys in Al Qaeda in Afghanistan a generation ago . . .