US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

this clearly shows that you are not.

Why do you think I am accusing YOU of cowardice?

I am accusing al Qaeda of attacking those it perceives are hesitant and/or cowards.

Good!

Cancelled!

The Iraq rule change, cancelled? Good news!

Cycloptichorn

yeah ok Ican no offense, was a bit how you say cranky yesterday. My real annoyance over the war is that it has not achieved a single one of its "official" or actual objectives. However, too tired now to post much. If you thought the muslims could be difficult, wait till you come across one of the true followers of Hindutva

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50820&start=360

wonderful piece by Robert Fisk

Those who opposed the war were not cowards. Brits rather like fighting; they've biffed Arabs, Afghans, Muslims, Nazis, Italian Fascists and Japanese imperialists for generations, Iraqis included. But when the British are asked to go to war, patriotism is not enough. Faced with the horror stories, Britons and many Americans were a lot braver than Blair and Bush. They do not like, as Thomas More told Cromwell in A Man for All Seasons, tales to frighten children. Perhaps Henry VIII's exasperation in that play better expresses the British view of Blair and Bush: "Do they take me for a simpleton?" The British, like other Europeans, are an educated people. Ironically, their opposition to this war might ultimately have made them feel more, not less, European.

Extracted from 'The Great War for Civilisation: the Conquest of the Middle East' by Robert Fisk, published by 4th Estate. Visit www.independent booksdirect.co.uk.

I don't know if the following will pass the house much less not be vetoed by Bush, nonetheless it is good that someone in washington is finally getting some moral backbone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/05/AR2005100502062.html

Senate Supports Interrogation Limits
90-9 Vote on the Treatment of Detainees Is a Bipartisan Rebuff of the White House

By Charles Babington and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 6, 2005; A01

In a speech this morning, President Bush called Iraq "the central front in the war on terrorism".

Comments?

Bush is an idiot? That's the only comment that comes to mind.

That, and I suspect we are going to hear some very interesting things from Pat Fitzgerald, very soon; Whenever the going gets tough, the Prez goes back to terrorism speeches.

Cycloptichorn

Satire is dead, folks. It wasn't the Henry Kissinger/Tom Lehrer exchange that did it, though.

Today Tony Blair said

"Iran has no business interfering in Iraq"

"In a speech this morning, President Bush called Iraq "the central front in the war on terrorism"."

He's the one that created this war. He's not called the "war president" for nuttin.

Failed Bush War Should Foster "Outrage Beyond Belief,
Opinion: Failed Bush War Should Foster "Outrage Beyond Belief"
By Bob Herbert (excerpt)
Bush Watch
10/5/05

It's finally becoming clear on Capitol Hill, and maybe even in the White House, that the United States cannot win the war in Iraq. The only question still to be decided is how many more American lives will be wasted in George W. Bush's grand debacle. The wheels have fallen off the cart in Iraq, and only those in the farthest reaches of denial are hanging on to the illusion of an American triumph over the insurgency.

Air Force General Richard Myers, who retired Friday as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was publicly chastised at an Armed Services Committee hearing last week by Senator John McCain of Arizona, who has always been a strong proponent of the war. Senator McCain bluntly declared that "things have not gone as we had planned or expected, nor as we were told by you, General Myers." The general replied, "I don't think this committee or the American public has ever heard me say that things are going very well in Iraq."...

Even the most diehard defenders of this debacle are coming to the realization that it is doomed. So the party line now is that the Iraqis at some point will have to bear the burden of Mr. Bush's war alone. Talk about a cruel joke. On the same day that Senator McCain faced off with General Myers, more than 100 people were killed in a series of car bombs in a town north of Baghdad; five U.S. soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb in Ramadi; and the American general in charge of U.S. forces in Iraq, George Casey, admitted before the Armed Services Committee that only 1 of the Iraqi Army's 86 battalions was capable of fighting the insurgency without American help.

The American death toll in Iraq is fast approaching 2,000. If the public could see the carnage close up, the way it saw the horror of New Orleans, the outrage would be beyond belief. You never want to say that brave troops died for the mindless fantasies spun by a gang of dissembling, inept politicians. But what else did they die for? And what about all those men and women, some of them barely out of childhood, who are lying awake nights, hardly able to move their broken, burned and paralyzed bodies? What do we tell them as they lie there, unable to curb the pain or fight off the depression, or even begin to understand the terrible thing that has happened to them? What do we tell them about this war that their country inflicted on them for no good reason whatsoever?

BBB, However, some Americans still believe this war is justified. Many parents who have lost sons or daughters also support this war. Go figure.

This sort of news from Iraq will run the course of this war:

Attacks Kill at Least 15 in Iraq as Violent Surge Continues
By ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: October 6, 2005
U.S. and Iraqi officials prepared for an expected surge in violence ahead of the Oct. 15 referendum on a new constitution.

the worst part, cyclo, is that even if he's sincere, his white house has fostered such an air of suspicion around it's self that it's hard to believe anything he says. and the stuff pops up at convenient times.

even the terrorist threat in nyc today is suspect. "credible, but unconfirmed" ? on the same day bush does an alledged "major speech " on the war on terror ?

that's really the worst part of all of this; ya can't trust these guys about anything. there's always something...

DTOM, They can cry wolf too often; that stage was passed about 25 red alerts ago.

Bush is a fruitcake: White House denies witness reports

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1587122,00.html

Headline in the Indy

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq.

.....................................................

And God spake unto bush and said
Gird thee thy loins and i will lead you to the promised land
For even as ye dither, crude oil imports approach 60%
And Bush said speak to me of it oh Lord
adn the Lord spoke of it
And said go into the land of thy father
For did he not falter at the gate?

And Bush was sorely troubled
And knew of it not.

And the Lord spaketh again
For even as it is written,
Three times shalt thou hear me

And lo! Bush girded uppeth his loins
And went into the Land of the Two Rivers


With pillars of fire he smote them
And brimstone was there little in the oil
And Bush saw that it was good
For light was the fraction of it and sweet was its smell.



to be continued...