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When is a child ready to decide on their own to be baptized?

 
 
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 02:08 pm
My stepdaughter Han called us over the weekend and said she was getting baptized, May 21st.

Han comes over everyother weekend, when she called she asked if she could skip that weekend because she was getting baptized. My husband being the typical father got excited and said great she could still come over and we would go with her. She said okay and they hung up.

When he got off the phone he was so excited and said that Han was getting baptized. I said that was great, and then asked if he thought she was ready. She is 10 years old and goes to a Christian church a few days a week while she's with her bio mom. We take all our kids to church on Sundays (not every Sunday.. but we try).

The point is I don't think she is old enough to make that decision and definitely doesn't understand what it really means to be baptized.
Let me explain. Just last weekend when she was with us, I asked her to take a ceramic planter out into the garden. She opened the sliding door and all I heard was a big "crack"... I called out from the kitchen for her to be careful and she said Okay... A few seconds later she comes walking back in and says, "Mom how is he suppose to stand with a broken foot?" I told her he didn't have a broken foot, she argued with me that he did.. I asked her to bring it in so I could see... When I saw it I asked her if she hit it on the wall on her way out... "No", she said... "It was like that".

I asked her to look for the missing foot... next to the wall where she hit it. She finally found it and brought it over to the kitchen... She started saying that it was okay because all we had to do was glue his foot back. Just as I was getting ready to tell her to be careful when she put it down on the tile floor, another crack... She broke his head. I said, Han just leave it there and I'll take care of it. My husband was right around the corner and came running when he heard the crack... He asked her what happened and she said she didn't know. She looked him straight in the face and said, "His head just fell off". He was really upset because she is always lying about one thing or another.

So having said all that, I asked him if he thinks she is ready or if he should explain to her what it really means. I have two boys who were baptized at a Catholic church when they were babies. One day my husband and I were talking about this just in general and he said he didn't think that baptizing babies was right because they don't understand and they are born innocent.

I told him that in the Catholic religion that is just a tradition…because you are offering your child to God. He started telling me that children needed to be older so they could understand what it meant and why they were getting baptized. So now here we are. I told him that I was happy Han is ready to accept Jesus into her life, but the question still remained.. is she really ready?

He also had a 19 year old who isn't doing very well. We don't know where she is or who she's with. She goes from boyfriend to boyfriend, sleeping from one friend's house to another and doing only God knows what… I asked him if the oldest daughter had been baptized.. He said no. I then asked why not, and that maybe that was a good thing. I told him that when she is ready to totally accept God she will choose to be baptized. It will mean A LOT more having gone thru some life experiences.. Good and bad. But she will come to that all on her own, on her own time.

He was really upset, I wasn't trying to rain on his parade but I don't think she is ready. I asked if he had talked with her mom about it… NO. So he called Han's mom and asked what prompted the baptism? She said that the teachers at Sunday school passed out cards and asked the kids to fill them out if they wanted to be baptized.

"That's it," I said. So neither you nor her mom have talked to Han about it, no adult was involved in making that decision. What? He said that Han was ready to accept Jesus into her heart and that's all that should matter. Okay, I said. Then when she turns 16 like the other one and tells you she decided to drop out of school your going to stand by and let her do that? No answer.

My boys and I are now going to a Christian church with my husband. I tell my boys that they should wait until they are in their teen years to choose to be baptized. I want them to learn that life is hard and they have to learn how to handle the everyday struggles they will be faced with. I tell them it's never too late to accept Jesus into you heart, but when you do accept him you have to be ready to accept him completely. They understand (some of it) and ask lots of questions but they admit they are not completely ready because they have so many more questions.

So, am I wrong to ask him to talk to Han and ask her if she completely understands what it means? Is she ready, how can a child that young breaking so many commandments every day be ready? It's not just the lying although she does it a lot… She walks around reciting bible verses then turns around and does just the opposite. Is it wrong for him to ask her to wait? Shouldn't her mom and dad have been involved in the decision? At minimum shouldn't Han have consulted with her bio mother? Please help I don't want them to resent me for this. Have I over stepped my place?

oops... put that in twice. Embarrassed
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,172 • Replies: 33
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Bekaboo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 03:07 pm
Ok I didn't read all of that but i read the first bit

I don't know if it's different in your church but in C of E common practice is that small babies are baptised and then a person can choose to take their confirmation vows whenever they choose. At my Dad's church children were expected to be 8 - at mine 10. And there is always a series of classes that they must attend first

Baptism isn't selling your soul away - it is acknowledging that you want to be part of a community
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chispita73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 03:24 pm
Bekaboo wrote:

Baptism isn't selling your soul away - it is acknowledging that you want to be part of a community


I really like your point of view.

I guess my real concern is that she didn't talk it over with anyone. But if that's the way her bio-parents want her to learn then I need to step back.

Thanks.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 03:26 pm
I agree that this concerns only her parents.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 04:33 pm
Sounds to me like Chispita is one of Han's parents.
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chispita73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 04:47 pm
Montana - When I married my husband I became accepted the responsibilities of being her mom. Although in situations like this I often wonder what my place should be. I put myself in her bio-mom's place but I also play devils advocate..


Drew - Thanks.. A lot of my friends tell me I shouldn't get involved in their "family" issues.. But Han is my family! :-)
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 06:47 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Sounds to me like Chispita is one of Han's parents.


Unless I missed something here, this young lady has a living biological mother (who is very much a part of her life) and father and they are her parents. Chispita may be her step mother, but that doesn't mean she should have a say in matters concerning her step daughter.
If my sons step mother interfered in matters concerning my son, I would not be a happy camper.

Chispita
Please know that this is not meant to disrespect you.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 06:56 pm
Montana wrote:
Unless I missed something here, this young lady has a living biological mother (who is very much a part of her life) and father and they are her parents. Chispita may be her step mother, but that doesn't mean she should have a say in matters concerning her step daughter.


Well said Montana! Wink
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 07:07 pm
Re: When is a child ready to decide on their own to be bapti
chispita73 wrote:
I have two boys who were baptized at a Catholic church when they were babies. One day my husband and I were talking about this just in general and he said he didn't think that baptizing babies was right because they don't understand and they are born innocent.

I told him that in the Catholic religion that is just a tradition…because you are offering your child to God. He started telling me that children needed to be older so they could understand what it meant and why they were getting baptized.


Not that it matters in the whole of this discussion but I'll just point out here that your explanation to your husband here would probbaly be considered flippant by most Catholics. It has nothing to do with "just a tradition" or "offering your child to God" (Catholics don't eat their children either! Very Happy ).

The concept of baptism at birth relates directly to the concept of Original Sin and is a major theological distinction between Catholics and the Evangelical Protestant religions.

Just sayin'...
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 07:14 pm
chispita73 wrote:
Montana - When I married my husband I became accepted the responsibilities of being her mom. Although in situations like this I often wonder what my place should be. I put myself in her bio-mom's place but I also play devils advocate..


Again, I mean no disrespect, but marrying your husband doesn't make you her mom and unless your husband had full custody (which he doesn't since your step daughter is only with you every other weekend), you are not responsible for her. She already has a mother!
I think you are seriously over stepping here and I know if I was her mother, you'd hear about it!

I apologize if I sound harsh, but there's no easier way I can say it.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 07:17 pm
Thanks Fishin ;-)
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 07:35 pm
Things are, of course, are different in various religions. Baptism is just the first step on the road to fully accepting your faith. Babies have no idea about anything until they grow for a few years. A 10 year old will not have the maturity to know exactly what things are all about either, but being baptized is not the end of it.

I believe that a earlier poster mentioned that the child's Confirmation Vow is taken later. In my church it is 14. Up until that age, the parents are responsible for the spiritual upbringing of the child. Once confirmed, they are expected to follow their faith as an adult. Of course, they receive a couple of years in instruction prior to their confirmation so that they are fully aware of what they are confirming before hand.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 07:56 pm
Quite possibly one reason Han hankers for baptism is that she thinks the ceremony will help her be good.

As stepmother of six, I know that stepmothers get opinions but not votes.
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turtlette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2005 09:53 pm
Re: When is a child ready to decide on their own to be bapti
When is a child ready to decide on their own to be baptized?

"My stepdaughter Han called us over the weekend and said she was getting baptized, May 21st."

She answered your question for you.

"I told him that I was happy Han is ready to accept Jesus into her life,..."

That sentence could have ended there.

"She walks around reciting bible verses then turns around and does just the opposite."

So do priests, nuns and many others.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 06:49 am
Montana wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Sounds to me like Chispita is one of Han's parents.


Unless I missed something here, this young lady has a living biological mother (who is very much a part of her life) and father and they are her parents.

I'm sure every family has to find that balance themselves.... This might be true for you, but as we're all aware biology is not the end-all be-all of parenthood.

Montana wrote:
Chispita may be her step mother, but that doesn't mean she should have a say in matters concerning her step daughter.
If my sons step mother interfered in matters concerning my son, I would not be a happy camper.

Like I said before, sounds like Han has three parents whether bio-mom likes it or not. Having two households and two sets of parents is certainly difficult for any family. But no doubt Chispita and her husband discuss the children's well being. No doubt Chispita is involved with discipline, chores, role modeling, etc. Chispita is a parent; she just chooses not to lock horns with bio-mom over questionable issues.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 07:57 am
Drew
I don't agree. Chispita's step daughter obviously lives with her mother and only spends a weekend with her father/stepmother twice a month, so the major caretaker is her mother. Han already has a set of parents and they are the ones who are responsible for her upbringing.
Chispita expressed her husbands anger with her when she pressed this issue with him and I can safely assume it's because she is out of line.
Chispita is pressing issues that are simply none of her business because she is not one of Hans parents and her interfering will cause nothing but problems between her mom and dad.
Sure, it's fine for Chispita to discuss anything she wants with her husband, but she is wrong to press him on matters concerning "his" daughter!
Divorced parents have enough on their plate to deal with without someone else interfering and a step parent doesn't get parenting rights simply because they married someone who had children with someone else.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 08:04 am
From what I gather from Chispita's first post, she has a few children of her own, so you are right in saying that she's a parent, but that only applies to her own children.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 08:27 am
I can only say that I strongly disagree.

When the original family breaks up, then one can only hope that the children find that they now have four parents that care about them, instead of the original two.

I'm not saying that the stepparent replaces the original mom or dad, I'm saying that the stepparent (ideally) augments the original parents.

I think you may be projecting your own situation onto Chispita's.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 09:14 am
No, I am not projecting my situation onto Chispita's!
Please don't assume this. My view on this would be the same even if I didn't have children and I'd be willing to bet that the majority would agree with me.

Don't you think 2 parents are enough? Too much of anything is not good for anyone and that includes parents, especially when we humans have so many different views on things.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2005 09:15 am
Sorry, Montana. Gotta agree with DrewDad.

When I married Bear, knowing he had a handicapped son that was in his care every other weekend plus a day during the week, I knew I would be the "mother" to that child on those days. To undermine the step-parent or their input won't be doing the child or the second marriage any service. You never know what might happen that may cause the child to need to live with the father and step Mom. The child needs to respect her, and know she is a parental figure.

As for when to baptize, I think the child should be made aware of what it really means. (whatever that is to your family) It's too important to allow it to be made into a "center of attention for the day" or "all my classmates are doing it" kinda thing.
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