Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

fm wrote-



I am tempermentally opposed to parents interfering with education professionals.In the main parents don't know what they are talking about.I would probably vote for children being taken away from parents altogether.I don't see what a person's life has to do with the silly sods who fornicated it into existence.It isn't as if fornication was some great tribulation or sacrifice.The idea that children owe their parents anything is ridiculous to me.It is the other way round.
And such an argument has more weight the faster a society is changing and I have little doubt that it will come to carry the day.Once you introduce compulsory education from 5,and it's well on the way to 4 here now,the parents should take a back seat.If the situation was reversed and the Dover 11 were IDers I would be just as opposed to them as I am to this lot of interfering busybodies with nothing better to do than mark their kids out to the other 3000 as different and get them subjected to a degree of ridicule or worse.As things stand I don't see parents as having anything other than a miniscule effect on their kids,probably negative,for the reasons Joe pointed out.Media,comics,peer groups,schools are the prime moulders and now,according to this programme,it seems the sperm and the egg are a function of the surrounding environment at conception.

But keeping the nation (culture) "in form" is the name of the game.If you think Brave New World with the woman as the bottle you might get the general idea.Social workers already have the power to remove children from their parents under certain circumstances.Those circumstances could easily be extended if there is good evidence to show it is the best thing to do.

You are right to be fascinated fm.So am I.It gets a lot more fascinating than this though.

I used to be in education and the staff had many disputes over everything under the sun but one thing they all agreed on was the utter imbecility of parents who were all out to prove the superiority of their own genetic material.They use kids like footballs.Kids are people not toys or excuses for a free ride or status symbols.There's millions who are not even being fed properly and the government has provided plenty of good food.

Sorry for the hip-shots.It's Friday night.

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
Don't criticise what you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get off the new one if you can't lend a hand
For the times they are a changin'

What do you think that means?

wande wrote-



It isn't my perspective.I didn't invent any of this stuff.If I put what I've invented on here they would close the site."If my thought dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine but it's alright Ma I'm only sighing".Bob Dylan.I changed the last bit because I like it better that way.

There's nothing idiosyncratic in sight wande.It is all well known.Some of it donkey's years old.The upper classes of Europe have been wet nursing,nannying,prep schooling,public schooling,military training their kids for hundreds of years.And they found and conquered America.As I have said before on this thread-if a bunch of parents had come to my school laying the law down Father Wiseman would have given them the bum's rush.And I haven't taken much harm.Have I?

Intersting background info on the ID court case

New York Times
In Intelligent Design Case, a Cause in Search of a Lawsuit
By Laurie Goodstein
Published: November 4, 2005

HARRISBURG, Pa., Nov. 3 - For years, a lawyer for the Thomas More Law Center in Michigan visited school boards around the country searching for one willing to challenge evolution by teaching intelligent design, and to face a risky, high-profile trial.
Intelligent design was a departure for a nonprofit law firm founded by two conservative Roman Catholics - one the magnate of Domino's pizza, the other a former prosecutor - who until then had focused on the defense of anti-abortion advocates, gay-rights opponents and the display of Christian symbols like crosses and Nativity scenes on government property.
But Richard Thompson, the former prosecutor who is president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Center, says its role is to use the courts "to change the culture" - and it well could depending on the outcome of the test case it finally found.

New York Times

There you go then.Chickens all safely roosting.

Put up job just as I said.Now we know Why Dover?

It would have been somewhere.

Wow. We need a whole new thread.

The news article you are referring to seems to indicate the opposite of what you said, spendius. The ID proponents are the provacateurs.

Spendius, are you saying that your perspective is mainstream?

wande wrote-

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Well-I knew that.Sticking the 3 paragraphs in out of the blue.I read what the Superintendent said on the site in Dover.But basically I am on the ID side.
The culture does need to change.Abortion is abominable.I think the two guys deserve supporting for trying to do something about it the right way.I'm in favour of giving this whole thing a good airing anyway.So you deserve a vote of thanks for what I think is the best thread I have seen apart from the Pants Game.

Yes.I am mainstream.They go to pubs at this time.

spendius, you just make absolutely no sense. Do people ever tell you that?

Acquiunk, This is the same deal that drove the SCopes trila except it was in response to an existing anti-evolution law in force in the state of Tennessee.

Farmerman, in any case what these guys are looking for is "activist judges" which coming from conservatives I find interesting.

fm had an insight with-


Yes.Regularly.This very evening I was told,and with some force,that I was talking out of my arse.I love winding folk up.It's about the only thing that makes life worth living.I have an intense dislike of platitudes,cliches and polite conversation.Such things are so devious to a simple soul like me.I find difficulty in picking up on the "struggle for existence and the survival of the fittest" in such subtleties.It's above my head.

I heard Jimmy Carter today on NPR put it in a way I thought very clear and simple. He said he's a Christian who believes in a creator/God, but that he was also trained in nuclear physics - a scientist. As such, he doesn't want the two mixed - he said he thinks the ID movement is propogated by those who want to mix religion and science, and he said he had no conflict in letting both exist separately.

Jimmy makes a great deal of sense.

Yes snood but he's already made his millions from peanuts and other things.To these lawyers problems are like peanuts except that there's no ploughing,planting,hoping,harvesting and flogging.

Thanks snood - I thought I was losing it there for a while in the thread. I'm with Jimmy. Except that I'm not religious. That must make me in half agreement with Jimmy.

Anyway he made sense.

Yeh, I told him that a while back. He answered (I think), but it made no sense.

What Charles Darwin states is correct as only states that there is a continual mutation of the genes both good and bad. It is like building a house where the schedule is fixed and you build with whatever material is at hand. If you don't have the proper materials as per specifications and design, too bad your house is not going to be perfect. In fact the house could be down right dangerous. Now, how many people eat nutritional meals, work out and sleep the required 8 hours? Not many. Of course, this will affect your health and the genes you reproduce. That would be one way genetic material could vary. There is background radiation thus another way for genes to mutate. Notice how callous develops if you barefoot everyday. Those stresses could be mapped into your genes thus the kid would be better at barefoot walking. However the genes mutate the one with the proper characteristics will survive and dominate that niche. One can even see this in the economy. The trains displaced the horse carriage. But the car and truck took over from the railroads as the primary mode of people transportation. The train gained a new niche as transport of choice for bulk material. However, with high gas prices there might some more changes.

talk72000, that is a unique and entertaining theory on evolution, but that is not how it works!

James Earl Carter, Jr., aka Jimmy Carter, never was a peanut farmer. Your ability to display your ignorance is breathtaking. He is a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, which makes him by definition a marine engineer, and he took advanced degrees in nuclear engineering. You'd have to stand on your daddy's shoulders to see over the toe caps of that man's shoes.

Oh Yeah.He stunned us when he was the first world leader to deliberately allow himself to be seen in public holding his wife's hand.Our toes curled and we squirmed in our seats.Then a B-movie actor wiped the floor with him at the first time of asking.But I liked him.He was a serious Baptist which puts him firmly in the ID camp and he was anti-abortion.And everything I ever read has him into peanuts.If that's wrong I stand corrected.
I don't think anybody has to stand on their father's shoulders to see over anybody's toe-caps which,incidentally,we all know are on shoes.I feel sure Mr Carter would distance himself from such abject fawning.He might allow himself a cringe.
Even the President of the United States must sometimes have to stand naked.I didn't know you were an elitist hero-worshipper mi owd cock sparrow.

If displays of ignorance really do take your breath away you ought to consider having a supply of oxygen to hand when you come on this site.It would be a tragic loss to us all if you were to suffocate.

I can't actually see why anything I said concerning Mr Carter has provoked you to leap to his defence in the emotionally distraught manner you have.

Methinks you protest too much.Chill out Settie-it's only show business.