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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 16 May, 2009 03:30 pm
@Lightwizard,
Scientists pick everything clean and leave no stone unturned.

Does it bother you LW?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 04:55 am
What's the point of asking questions if you never intend to consider the answers? All you do, Spendius, is play defense except when you drip some droll put-down onto the page.

Joe(really, such a waste of effort)Nation
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 05:25 am
@Joe Nation,
I must admit that I ws baiting him a bit. So he doesnt deserve a full frontal "Sister Mary Whupass" .

Any news on the hawks?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 08:00 am
Just curious... how much of the knowledge used today in modern medicine, agriculture, genetics, biology or even cosmology, was derived from Intelligent Design?

LW's post on another thread reminded me of the almost endless string of functional successes science has had over the years, many of which are currently on display by NASA in orbit above our heads or wandering around on Mars. Meanwhile, not the tiniest shred of that success or knowledge has come from Intelligent Design, nor can it ever come from Intelligent Design because the whole point of the theory is to arrive at the conclusion that something happened by magic.

This thread started out asking if ID was Science or Religion and we quickly resolved that it was neither. Instead, it's an "anti-thought" philosophy which is actively damaging to both science and religion.

Take THAT you dead horse! Smile


Lightwizard
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 09:47 am
@rosborne979,
There are thousands of intelligent designers on Earth of various levels of talent and education.

The Science Channel had a one hour special on the Hubble with spectacular CGI along with the most important photographs, including the deep fieldphotograph . If there's an cosmic intelligent designer, it must be Jackson Pollock.

Designing is creating according to a plan. Viewing the Universe through Hubble's photographs, there is absolutely no indication of any planning -- it's as random as the sand, pebbles, driftwood and shells on the beach, but in an astonishing display of light and color, sometimes as tranquil as fireflies over a pond and sometimes as chaotic looking as the H bomb set off at a Bikini Atoll test or a tornado raging through Kansas (Dorothy, Dorothy, where are you?). I'd just like the IDiots to give us a visualization of the cosmic drawing board, instruments used to draw out the design plan, the eraser for any mistakes (!), but especially the intelligent being using these art supplies.

Nature is the higher power that humans have experimented with and successfully put a great deal of it to use. Humans still have little to no control over the whole scope of nature. Nature controls much of our environment and even though we've discovered how to harness parts of nature or, at least, help it along, nature will ultimately prevail. Just be caught in a hurricane, earthquake, tornado, tsunami, or a comet like Shoemaker-Levy 9 hits the Earth -- nature emphatically shows us that it is the master and I find no problem feeling humble towards nature.

If the God in the Old Testament had decided that humankind was a mistaken design, had began designing itself and decided to kill off all life with a world wide flood except for Noah, his family and pairs of animals of the opposite sex. Mr. and Mrs. Brontosaurus and the rest of the huge dinosaur species became extinct because the pairs had to be used as ballast on port and starboard.

Several times the narrator referred to the evolution of stars, galaxies, planetary systems as we don't live in a static Universe. Evolution didn't start with the first living organism in the ocean, even though biological evolution was on its way.
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 01:29 pm
D.S Savage wrote, concerning James Joyce, that he was a "super-Aesthete who, having cut himself off from all belief, was led to solipsism, moral bankruptcy, a passive "realism", and finally to attempt to create in his art a comprehensive, magical substitute for life."

"Meaning", he said, " implies selectivity, discrimination, which in turn are dependent upon an initial act of faith. By the abandonment of faith, discrimination is rendered impossible, and there must ensue a surrender to the undifferentiated flux of being: it is this which is presented in Ulysses."

From which one might deduce that Ulysses ought to be an anti-IDer's bedside companion book assuming it is the objective truth they seek without any gloss of Christian sensibility. It is never far from my reach.

I like Joyce as a super-Comedian.

spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 01:42 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Meanwhile, not the tiniest shred of that success or knowledge has come from Intelligent Design, nor can it ever come from Intelligent Design because the whole point of the theory is to arrive at the conclusion that something happened by magic.


Which it did. And which explains why the whole of previous human history, by the side of which the last two thousand years are like yesterday, had no science as we now use the term. There would be no science of dynamic space and force without the concept of intelligent design.

What one might say about the straw man intelligent design erected on the sitting duck principle I don't know. I will venture though that it went into Dover with both hands tied behind its back to save the blushes of the maidenly.

ros cannot deal with such matters so he shuts his eyes and ears to them for his convenience with the purpose that is easily guessed at from his posts. Which is an odd thing to do on a site called Able 2 Know.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 01:45 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Just curious... how much of the knowledge used today in modern medicine, agriculture, genetics, biology or even cosmology, was derived from Intelligent Design?


All of it.

A bit like books and magazines derive from the alphabet and the printing press both of which are forgotten by ros types when they read.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 May, 2009 01:51 pm
Anti-ID is anti-evolution to its roots.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 18 May, 2009 05:15 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Anti-ID is anti-evolution to its roots.
Or said another way, Creationism is actually evolutionism.
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Mon 18 May, 2009 08:18 am
@farmerman,
ID keeps going to the the salon for a good dye job to hide its' roots.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 18 May, 2009 11:23 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Or said another way, Creationism is actually evolutionism.


Looked at in a certain way--yes.

Unfortunately I am unable to specify the way. You're not intellectual enough.
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 25 May, 2009 11:41 am
Quote:
For myself, as, no doubt, for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom; we objected to the political and economic system because it was unjust. The supporters of these systems claimed that in some way they embodied the meaning (a Christian meaning they insisted) of the world. There was one admirably simple method of confuting these people and at the same time justifying ourselves in our political and erotic revolt: we could deny that the world had any meaning whatsoever.


Aldous Huxley. Ends and Means.

As he was writing of his youthful prime I presume the erotic had precedence.

His life style was such as to render a hankering for justness laughable.

Still- he was being honest.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 25 May, 2009 12:01 pm
@spendius,
You do Joyce a gross injustice. As with everything else on this thread.
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 25 May, 2009 02:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
You never say anything of substance Ed.

Why do I do Joyce an injustice?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 25 May, 2009 04:54 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Or said another way, Creationism is actually evolutionism.

Looked at in a certain way--yes. (IM SORRY SPENDI, MY BRAIN IS NOT ATTACHED TO MY ANUS LIKE YOURS)

Unfortunately I am unable to specify the way. You're not intellectual enough. (ACTUALLY, IM NOT SUFFERING FROM AN ANAL CRANIAL INVERSION LIKE YOU SO NO MATTER HOW YOU SPEAK, IT ALL SOUNDS LIKE FLATULENCE TO ME)
)
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 25 May, 2009 04:58 pm
@farmerman,
Perhaps you should try it effemm. Scientists are supposed to do lateral thinking.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Fri 29 May, 2009 03:17 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
Evolution didn't start with the first living organism in the ocean, even though biological evolution was on its way.

The idea of evolution in a general sense, isn't limited to just biology. Only biological evolution is limited to biology Smile
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Fri 29 May, 2009 03:29 pm
@rosborne979,
The newly repaired and updated Hubble should reveal along with the two European scopes more about the evolution of the Universe from the Big Bang. My hats off to the astronauts who pulled off that unimaginably difficult project.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Fri 29 May, 2009 03:33 pm
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote:
The newly repaired and updated Hubble should reveal along with the two European scopes more about the evolution of the Universe from the Big Bang. My hats off to the astronauts who pulled off that unimaginably difficult project.

Real science continues to impress, whereas ID continues to be a waste of time and a blight on modern society.
0 Replies
 
 

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