Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@cicerone imposter,

Beats the **** out of me how ANYONE could...but I can see you are in one of your childish moods...so **** you.

If you finally decide to grow up...tell me what it applied to and I will respond.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank-

This is a scientific discussion and we should try not to let ourselves get angry and insulting.

ci. can't help it. He has spent so many years thinking that references to the FSM are all that are needed to overturn the Christian tradition that it is now an integral part of his mental furniture and as suffering human beings we are supposed to endure such things with nothing more than a smirk.

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@Frank Apisa,

Okay, Frank, here's what I meant: since there is no way to prove any spaghetti monster exists, I have decided it a waste of time trying to prove there is or isn't one. That applies for gods; there isn't any way to prove there is or isn't a god; it just doesn't provide any evidence, so in my world no spaghetti monsters or gods exist. For me, it's not even a guess; it's my reality. Evolution and science proves itself in many different ways; no guessing is necessary; it's backed by "evidence."

You can continue to question the existence of god if that's your reality; it's not mine.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Okay, Frank, here's what I meant: since there is no way to prove any spaghetti monster exists, I have decided it a waste of time trying to prove there is or isn't one.

Well, I'm still not sure what that has to do with what I said...but I understand now that you have decided it is a waste of time trying to prove there is or isn't a spaghetti monster. (Shouldn't that be FLYING spaghetti monster???)

Either way...same for me. I never waste any time on idiotic things like Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

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That applies for gods; there isn't any way to prove there is or isn't a god; it just doesn't provide any evidence, so in my world no spaghetti monsters or gods exist.

Really. Well...so long as laughable, illogical reasoning doesn't bother you...I image you are very comfortable with that position. It does bother me...so I prefer to handle it the way I do.

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For me, it's not even a guess; it's my reality.

Yup, I understand that completely.

I have lots of contact with Christians...and they say the same thing.

Well...not exactly the same. Like you, they don't guess...but they know there IS a GOD!

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Evolution and science proves itself in many different ways; no guessing is necessary; it's backed by "evidence."

And your point is???

I have not said a single thing that disputes that.

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You can continue to question the existence of god if that's your reality; it's not mine.

I do not know if there are gods involved in the Reality of existence...and I do not know if there are no gods involved.

Not sure why that provokes you so much...but that is your problem, not mine, c.i.

If you want to think “your Reality” is “the” Reality...do it. You may be right. The Christians certainly think all they have to do is call their blind guesses “their reality”...and that settles it--just like you do.

So you are in fine company.

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@Frank Apisa,

...the Flying Spaghetti Monster

may the sauce be upon him

or her, I'm no sexist

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank wrote:

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Well...not exactly the same. Like you, they don't guess...but they know there IS a GOD!

Based on 100% faith and nothing more. A poor substitute for logic and reality based on evidence.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

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Evolution and science proves itself in many different ways; no guessing is necessary; it's backed by "evidence."

And your point is???

The point is what farmerman has already tried to explain it to you in so many different ways.

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@cicerone imposter,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 3570433)
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Evolution and science proves itself in many different ways; no guessing is necessary; it's backed by "evidence."

And your point is???

The point is what farmerman has already tried to explain it to you in so many different ways.

What is to explain??????????????

I do not disagree...nor have I disagreed at any point in this discussion.

Why are you folks having so much trouble with that?

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@Frank Apisa,

Come on, Frank, quit playing the ignorant. Science has shown that many claims in the bible can't be true. The life of earth, the world flood, and so many other claims in the bible that they go further than science - such as all those miracles.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Question I asked before: Are you saying that there is no possibility of a GOD involved in the Reality of existence???

Unless you can say that...there is THE POSSIBILITY of an ID!

And youve determined that HOW?. To my argument You are unsopported by anything logical and therefore flat incorrect. Next youre gonna be stating that heavier than air flight relies upon gods also.
MAybe if you spent more time in reading the tenets of ID and stop trying to make up "Frank centered" arguments, then wed get somewhere. I dont think that enlightenment is your goal. Youve dug your heels in from some standpoint that ignores the realities of evidence and its role in acting as a great debunker.
Just screaming at each other doesnt resolve anything so Ill just back off, not conceding anything and hoping that you better understand how the evidence is what it is.

I love how malleable you are though, Im still chuckling at how youve determined that perhaps the IDer, by following environmental change with adaptive forms, was being purposely arbitrary. I can shoot that down by asking you whether you understand that the fossil record is full of examples that didnt make it and a very few that did. Thus yielding a "NOT SO" Intelligent Designer, more like the deaf blind watchmaker of Dawkins.

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@cicerone imposter,

The Bible, but most particularly the Old Testament, was written by rumor. Mythological rumor handed down verbally probably hundreds of times -- is there any wonder it was exposed as mainly fiction. Civilization in India predates any other civilization so the Hindu religion would have suffered from less hand-me-down distorted myths. There are some historically confirmed natural phenomena that explains where some of those myths came from. I just don't swallow that God was telling the writers of the Bible like secretaries taking down dictation what the dope was about their world, but suddenly decided to stop talking. After the Dark Ages, if someone began claiming they were having conversations with God, as Joan of Arc, they were either considered blasphemous, daffy or both.

Of course, this is not taking into consideration that the Shrub was getting communications with God to start wars. He would never explain, how, where, and especially why (him).

I think we are stuck with the notion that all God really has any influence on at all is the Super Bowl.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Come on, Frank, quit playing the ignorant. Science has shown that many claims in the bible can't be true. The life of earth, the world flood, and so many other claims in the bible that they go further than science - such as all those miracles.

What does that have to do with this????

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@Frank Apisa,

It has to do with the belief in a god and ID. Your ID is no different than the christian god and ID. It's all make-believe. It also shows that there is no evidence of any god or gods no matter how hard people wish to believe in ID.

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@farmerman,

You quoted me saying:

Quote:

Question I asked before: Are you saying that there is no possibility of a GOD involved in the Reality of existence???

Unless you can say that...there is THE POSSIBILITY of an ID!

And then asked:

[quote[And youve determined that HOW?.[/quote]

By the kind of logic even a five year old could understand...if the five year old had their mind open.

If there is the possibility of a GOD...there has to be the possibility of an Intelligent Designer.

Are you brain dead?

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To my argument You are unsopported by anything logical and therefore flat incorrect.

My logic is one hell of a lot better than the grammar, syntax, and spelling in that sentence, Farmerman.
My logic, in fact, is solid.

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Next youre gonna be stating that heavier than air flight relies upon gods also.

I did not ******* say that evolution relies upon the gods...so you analogy is as big a piece of **** as your reasoning.

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MAybe if you spent more time in reading the tenets of ID and stop trying to make up "Frank centered" arguments, then wed get somewhere.

I do not give a rat's ass what the ID tenets are...any more than I care what the tenets of theists are. The tenets do not make the Reality.

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I dont think that enlightenment is your goal.

That should be my line to you. Stop stealing my material.

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Youve dug your heels in from some standpoint that ignores the realities of evidence and its role in acting as a great debunker.

You are nuts. Really...you've fallen off the edge.

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Just screaming at each other doesnt resolve anything so Ill just back off, not conceding anything and hoping that you better understand how the evidence is what it is.

Jesus H. Christ, Farmerman...I understand the evidence. You are saying that the evidence proceeds from A to B to C to D...to Z.

Okay.

But none of that rules out an ID designing evolution to work exactly that way.

Can't you open your mind enough to see the obvious?

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I love how malleable you are though,

Good...anything that makes you happy.

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Im still chuckling at how youve determined that perhaps the IDer, by following environmental change with adaptive forms, was being purposely arbitrary. I can shoot that down by asking you whether you understand that the fossil record is full of examples that didnt make it and a very few that did. Thus yielding a "NOT SO" Intelligent Designer, more like the deaf blind watchmaker of Dawkins.

THE ******* INTELLIGENT DESIGNER COULD HAVE DESIGNED A SYSTEM THAT WORKS THAT WAY!

Spendius is right...you are pathetic as a defender of this position.

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@cicerone imposter,

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It has to do with the belief in a god and ID. Your ID is no different than the christian god and ID. It's all make-believe. It also shows that there is no evidence of any god or gods no matter how hard people wish to believe in ID.

You obviously are not bright enough for this conversation, c.i....go back an rag on Foxfyre.

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ID is just as tainted as Creationism by the association with only the Christian religion and the selected parts of the Bible that they try not-so-cleverly fit into their scheme. ID advocates, including their "scientists," may try to paint it with a different angle, but it's failed entirely in making itself look any different. Designer is easy to define, but in the illogical conclusions of ID, they have not even come close to defining just what this intelligence from a supernatural being is like. I know, it's their egotism that will compare it to the human brain, which means computers are close to becoming "god-like," only with mystical poof powers to create something out of nothing. Ah, so that's why civilization is like a sow's ear with no silk purse forcoming. We're too intent on neglecting and destroying nature and each other for thousands of years.

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Love this quotation:

If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction.”
- Judith Hayes

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@cicerone imposter,

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It has to do with the belief in a god and ID. Your ID is no different than the christian god and ID. It's all make-believe. It also shows that there is no evidence of any god or gods no matter how hard people wish to believe in ID.

You could just as easily have said that when the thread started. You probably did and have been repeating it over and over ever since. It's pointless.

My examples earlier of the latest manifestations of science have been superceded by the collision of two satellites. This has created much larger targets for future collisions which in turn will create even more larger targets for more collisions as in a nuclear chain reaction. With 5,000 satellites up there, and more being added all the time, is there a possibility that a mist of grains of metallic particles will eventually form and cut off enough sunlight to bring life on earth to an premature conclusion?

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Perhaps Rama will decide to save us.

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@Frank Apisa,

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I do not give a rat's ass what the ID tenets are...any more than I care what the tenets of theists are. The tenets do not make the Reality

AN now we elevate ID to the status of a reality, wow,

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By the kind of logic even a five year old could understand...if the five year old had their mind open.

Are you brain dead?

. The young and simple mind is unfettered with logic and knowledge.

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I do not give a rat's ass what the ID tenets are...any more than I care what the tenets of theists are. The tenets do not make the Reality.

. So the "reality" is based on what again?HE HE Heres your problem man. You are wearing your ignorance like a badge of honor. . It merely makes you appear intransigent to all but some bogus argument that you earlier summarized to Wandel in which you stated that
"A compelling argument can be made for ID" ---Like H Ross Perot, Im all ears to hear this compelling argument

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THE ******* INTELLIGENT DESIGNER COULD HAVE DESIGNED A SYSTEM THAT WORKS THAT WAY!

Spendius is right...you are pathetic as a defender of this position.

Well, spendi is just a careful crafter of run-on sentences, phrases that dont equate and illogical nonsense Do you wish to be so classified ? Still. You use the words "If" and the Designer "could have" and such lead ins that display your tenuous grasp of the entire subject. I freely admit my ignorance and try to learn more , you seem to bask in yours as a reason to discontinue any pursuit of knowledge. Ill take my road any day.

Please try to develop your "compelling" argument for ID , and, as I asked once before, try to do it while invoking scientific evidence which is, after all, part of the core discussions herein.

1 Reply

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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