Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

spendius,

A local school board would not be taken to federal court unless they are accused of violating federal law. In this case, the possible insertion of a religious view into government-operated education would be a violation of the law forbidding government entities from endorsing religion.

Here is a link that will "magically" transport you to the court where the trial is taking place:

http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller.htm

wande-

No wonder the lawyers are all rich.There's enough snow there for everybody to shovel at.

Cadets' Father Sues Air Force Academy
After years of complaints about the Academy's actions and so-called internal investigations that have not produced change, finally an Albuquerque father has filed a suit against the Air Force Academy. It will be interesting to watch this close up. ---BBB

Friday, October 7, 2005
Cadets' Father Sues Air Force Academy
By Scott Sandlin
Albuquerque Journal Staff Writer

Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy whose two sons were also cadets, has gone to federal court alleging zealous promotion of evangelical Christianity at the taxpayer-supported institution violates the Constitution.

Weinstein contends that a pattern and practice has developed at the academy over the past decade or more in which senior officers and cadets have attempted to impose evangelical Christianity into secular military venues.

Weinstein on Thursday asked Senior Judge James A. Parker for a permanent injunction barring the Air Force from evangelizing, proselytizing "or in any related way attempt(ing) to involuntarily convert, pressure, exhort or persuade a fellow member of the USAF to accept their own religious beliefs while on duty."

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Albuquerque by attorney Sam Bregman, claims the Air Force is violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment. That clause says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Air Force Academy spokesman Lt. Col. Laurent Fox said he could not comment specifically on the allegations in the lawsuit.

But he said the academy has taken affirmative steps to address perceptions of a lack of respect for other religions. He said the academy has begun three phases of "religious respect training" for all academy personnel. The training, which started in February, was a 50-minute session conducted by a chaplain, a commander and a lawyer aimed at instilling respect for "the spiritual values of all people," he said.

"We did that for over 9,000 in a small setting of 30 people," he said. "We wanted interaction. We wanted people to raise their hands."

Subsequent trainings are planned to educate personnel on world religions "because some of the problems here were based on ignorance." A third phase will look at policy issues, Fox said.

Weinstein, who has a son currently at the academy, alleges cadets have been encouraged by certain chaplains to "witness" to other cadets to try to convert them to evangelical Christianity and that cadets have also been coerced into non-secular prayers during mandatory or official events.

Upperclassmen have also pressured classmates and underclass cadets to engage in religious practices generally, and especially evangelical Christian practices.

The violations are severe, systemic and pervasive and have resulted in discrimination and harassment toward non-Christian and non-religious cadets and staff, the suit says.

In addition to slurs toward cadets who are Jewish, atheists or from other minority religious groups, the lawsuit claims Christian cadets are favored by their eligibility for "non-chargeable" passes that don't count as leave, while those who observe the Sabbath on other week days have not been able to get those passes.

Despite claims by the Air Force that it has changed its policies, "officials have made it clear that they have no intent to actually remedy the unconstitutional practices of the USAF," the suit says.

Good analogy.

Air Force steps back from 'code of ethics'
Albuquerque father wins partial victory in lawsuit against Air Force Academy.---BBB

Tuesday, October 11, 2005 · Last updated 5:32 p.m. PT

Air Force steps back from 'code of ethics'

By ROBERT BURNS
AP MILITARY WRITER

WASHINGTON -- The Air Force has withdrawn from use by its chaplain service a code of ethics that endorsed the practice of evangelizing military service members who are not affiliated with any specific religion.

The move, disclosed by Air Force officials on Tuesday, came in the wake of a lawsuit by a Jewish graduate of the Air Force Academy, Mikey Weinstein, of Albuquerque, N.M., who claims that senior officers and cadets illegally imposed Christianity on others at the school.

The code of ethics - issued by the Ai

r Force Chaplain Service in January 2005 - includes the statement: "I will not actively proselytize from other religious bodies. However, I retain the right to instruct and/or evangelize those who are not affiliated."

Jennifer Stephens, an Air Force spokeswoman, said the code of ethics was withdrawn "for further review" on Aug. 10. She did not say why it was withdrawn, but she stressed that it was separate from a code of ethics written by the National Conference on Ministry to the Armed Forces, a private organization of religious bodies that provides chaplains to all of the military services.

That group's code also says military chaplains reserve the right to evangelize those who are not affiliated with any religious faith, but Stephens said the Air Force "has no authority over the statements of that organization."

Last week, Mary L. Walker, the Air Force's top lawyer, wrote in a letter to an attorney for Weinstein that an Air Force chaplain service document "might have been understood to represent such a policy statement" on evangelizing but that the document was withdrawn from use. Stephens said Walker was referring to the Air Force code of ethics statement.

Weinstein filed his suit last week in federal court in New Mexico. Among the evidence he cited was a July 12 article in The New York Times that quoted the Air Force's deputy chief of chaplains, Brig. Gen. Cecil R. Richardson, as saying, "We will not proselytize, but we reserve the right to evangelize the unchurched."

In her letter, Walker disputed that statement. "There is no existing Air Force policy endorsing 'proselytizing' or 'evangelizing' 'the unchurched,'" she wrote.
---------------------------------------------

On the Net:

National Conference on Ministry to the Armed Forces at http://www.ncmaf.org/

Air Force at http://www.af.mil

BBB, Do you know how long this has been going on at the Air Force Academy? If I had to make a wild guess, I would think it started with Bush's presidency. Sure would like to know the truth.

Air Force Action: New Religion Guidelines Issued
August 31, 2005
Air Force Action: New Religion Guidelines Issued

Repercussions are still being felt from Americans United's report to Pentagon officials earlier this year about evangelical Christian proselytizing at the Air Force Academy.

Yesterday Air Force officials released a set of guidelines covering religious expression that apply not only to the Academy but to bases nationwide.

The document makes it clear that while service members retain the right to discuss religion with their peers, senior officers must take pains to avoid imposing their religion on subordinates.

"The more senior the individual, the more likely that personal expressions may be perceived to be official statements," notes the document. "The more senior the leader, the more responsibility he or she has to send the message that we are a team based on trust, respect, and a common mission to defend our nation - and that what is expected of all our personnel is to live up to our oaths, embrace our shared Air Force core values, and do our duty."

The guidelines also make it clear that chaplains have a duty to provide religious services as needed but that they must "respect the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs. They must be sensitive to those who do not welcome offerings of faith, as they are generous in sharing their faith with those who do."

Americans United says the guidelines are not perfect. A section on the uses of "non-sectarian" prayer is vague, and the document spells out no sanctions for those who violate it. Still, AU welcomed the guidelines as an important step toward increasing religious tolerance in the military.

Media interest in the release of the guidelines was high, and Americans United was quoted in the Associated Press, the Los Angeles Times , the Denver Post and the Colorado Springs Gazette .

Americans United got involved in the issue of religious tolerance in the Air Force after Mikey Weinstein, an AU member in Albuquerque, brought the matter to the organization's attention last spring. Weinstein's son attends the Academy and had reported instances of anti-Semitism and official preference of evangelical Christianity.

Military officials investigated the climate at the Academy and have vowed to take corrective action.

To make sure the guidelines are followed, Air Force officials are requiring the Academy to develop a long-range plan for incorporating the guidelines into its training programs.

-- Rob Boston

Reads like what happened with sexual harrassment at the Air Force Academy - including rape that the higher ups failed to correct, and we're talking general rank. It took many years before sexual harrassment at the academy was corrected. Many women just tolerated being raped, because they wanted to become an Air Force pilot.

c.i.


c.i. the only info I could find refers to 1997 to 2000 revisions.

BBB

c.i. wrote-



Germaine Greer began her career in the fame and fortune business with a statement like that only with much wider application.

Re: Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?
So, back to Wandeljw's original question...



After all this discussion, and as most scientists knew from the beginning, it's clear that ID isn't science because it simply doesn't meet the requirements of science.

However, is it a religion. I don't think so.

So if ID isn't science *or* religion, what is it exactly?

rosborne,

Thanks for the great post!

ID may not be religion but I think it is very similar to William Paley's "natural theology" from the early 1800's.

Language experts will correct me if I'm wrong but I understood the word "religion" to come from a Latin derivation.

Religatio-a tying up,training.

Religio-conscientiosness,scrupulousness,respect for what is sacred,conscience,awe,religious obligation,external religion,pious etc.

Religio-to tie,to fasten.to bind.

If ID binds a community together it is a religious idea.

How does science produce these values listed except through materialistic ambition and only insofar as they have utility for that ambition.

wande-beware of lavishing praise simply because it adds wieght to your side.That comes close to a religious feeling in that "great" seeks to bind the SDers together.

spendius,

My greatest wish would be to use the word "great" when talking about your posts.

My greatest wish would be to understand just one of Spendi's posts.

ros-

Surely that last one was understandable.

A religion is a set of beliefs,hopefully rendered internally coherent by theology,which is a unifying force for a living community.It matters not a jot whether the beliefs are true.To undermine a community's belief is to undermine their unity.Once it has been undermined individuals seek personal beliefs such as in aliens or powers in objects or Satan worship and they become alienated.There may be a lot of Satan worshippers but they are not,as far as I know,a community in the social and economic sense.

A scientist going flat out can undermine your beliefs.I won't say how he might explain it to you but if he is an expert user of language he might shock you rigid.I could take whatever he said but I know most people can't.

This debate is too abstract.It is playing with words.
I respect living communities whatever they need to believe.Any half way true scientific mind would do the same.To not do seems to me to betray a lack of confidence.You simply cannot ignore the social functions of religious belief in terms of decision making and co-ordination between economically rival groups and in marriage relations which ground property relations in blood lines.

And that is only scratching the surface.

Pure SD must outcome in Big Brother is one quick way of saying it.

Just came across this article in the NYT on erosion of the U.S competitive edge in science. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/13/science/13research.html

What are your opinions on the possibile introduction of I.D in science classes and its effect on this scientific edge ?

Presenting I.D. in science class would give young students a distorted view of science because:
1. I.D. does not employ any scientific methodology.
2. I.D. does not give any insight into how nature works.
3. It would be grossly dishonest to give young students the impression that I.D. has equal standing with evolutionary theory.