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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 31 Mar, 2008 06:33 am
nothing like a fresh page.it clears the mind and stimulates the anticipation of what may yet be.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 08:46 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE

Quote:
Author denies bill lets creationism slip into schools
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 09:46 am
Quote: "I believe that students should be exposed to both sides of scientific data and allow them to make their own decisions," Nevers said Monday."

There's "both sides" to scientific data? ROF
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 09:50 am
I don't think our government should be wasting its time (and our money) writing bills which attempt to tell science how to do what it's already doing quite well; establishing the veracity of new theories and fine tuning existing ones.

The scientific process is not broken. The very fact that new theories are so hard to become accepted as valid science is the strength of the system, not its weakness.

The very fact that ID and Creationism need to be pushed through the political system instead of through standard science evaluation processes indicates that it's not worthy as science.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 09:59 am
Quote:
Darwin wrote that life forms have changed over time by mutations, with the pressure of natural selection determining which changes succeed and which species survive or die out
. Nowhere, in any of Darwins 6 editions, does the word mutation appear. Darwin knew nothing of Mendel's LAws and he was, erroneously, a believer that the external environment could stimulate the production of heritable variation in individuals.
The issue of how natural selection itself has mutated over time, is a result of the mountains of evidence that has been collected in the 150 years since the "Origins" first edition.

The folks of Louisiana are placing modifiers into incorrect statements with a hope that the audiences of legislators will be duped by their Evangelical "Wish list"

The Id/Creationists cant compete in a head to head display of all the evidence so they are busy trying to redefine their argument.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:04 am
This is a purely political game. It has nothing to do with science. That they even mention science in the same legislation with all this is just part of the smoke screen over the scam.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:22 am
We understand. However, how far do you think theyd get by admitting that?. They have to have some pretense of an involvement of dispassionate science. Otherwise theyd be stopped by a summary judgement.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:36 am
The Academic Freedom Acts in Louisiana and Florida are modeled after the Discovery Institute's Academic Freedom Act proposal. Again, state legislators who are anti-evolution are being guided by propaganda tactics from the Discovery Institute.

(I have noticed that some bloggers simply use "Disco" when talking about the Discovery Institute.)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:44 am
The stupid thing is that this hurts school districts. They'll get sued, and based on Epperson v. Arkansas, Edwards v. Aguillard and Webster v. New Lenox School District, they'll lose. They'll have at least hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay, and probably millions to pay, for the cupidity of politicians who just want to grab as many religious crackpot votes as possible.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:53 am
farmerman wrote:
We understand. However, how far do you think theyd get by admitting that?. They have to have some pretense of an involvement of dispassionate science. Otherwise theyd be stopped by a summary judgement.

I agree that this tactic is their only hope. If they came right out and said, "we would really like to teach biblical scripture in science class", it would smack into the first amendment and stop immediately.

My point was that by responding to their tactic by trying to defend the theories of science, we allow them past the first gate. The first gate is an implied observation that government has no say in validating scientific theories or modifying the process of science. The government is only allowed to say that we should teach science or not.

Any legislation which proposes modifying the wording of science or the process of science should be ruled "out of purview" and dismissed.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:54 am
Look at the bright side. Its not like alot of them are actually getting out of high school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/ap_on_re_us/high_school_grad_rates;_ylt=AkcwGWR9Kmy7gQ5w6D.SD4VI2ocA

P.S.
Happy April Real Life day everyone!!!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 11:04 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
Look at the bright side. Its not like alot of them are actually getting out of high school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/ap_on_re_us/high_school_grad_rates;_ylt=AkcwGWR9Kmy7gQ5w6D.SD4VI2ocA

P.S.
Happy April Real Life day everyone!!!


This probably represents another one of those Bush's "progress."
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 11:54 am
rosborne979 wrote:
This is a purely political game. It has nothing to do with science. That they even mention science in the same legislation with all this is just part of the smoke screen over the scam.


That's what John Grant claims in Corrupted Science: Fraud, Ideology and Politics in Science.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 01:47 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
The folks of Louisiana are placing modifiers into incorrect statements with a hope that the audiences of legislators will be duped by their Evangelical "Wish list"


You've learned nothing from this thread fm. As a student you "could do better".

Where is your evidence that they hope what you claim they hope? They know they are preaching to the converted. They are searching for forms of words. There's no duping going on. They all know that a society cannot do without a religion. You can only play around with such ideas.

Your use of "duped" stems from you thinking you know what's going on and you don't.

That proves you are not here to learn anything. Because to bring your own mental state into focus on what somebody says causes you to get nothing out of it and thus makes your attention on it a waste of effort unless you want to use it for your own reasons.

As if the audiences of legislators need some lessons from you to stop them being duped. ho ho ho.

A bright kid might tell an audience of kids that they were being duped when the magician saws his young lady in the skimpy kit in half. But not an audience of grown ups.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 02:00 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
• Educational authorities in Louisiana should "assist teachers to find more effective ways to present the science curriculum where it addresses scientific controversies."


That's what you should focus on. It's the first time I've seen that said on this thread apart from when I have said it.

The nexus you all scoffed at. Science and "controversial issues". Not science and non-controversial issues like gravity and aljebra.

And there is no such thing as controversial issues without social consequences. Two subjects AIDs-ers have put their fingers over their eyes at to enable them to continue spouting repetitive drivel with no point to it. And they are the only things that matter.

I think it was Harold Laski who said that there's nothing quite so tiresome as somebody spouting a policy without considering what it will lead to. Fatuous idealism.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 02:09 pm
Hey I just saw under my name that I am a 'Friend of the Devil'. Wonder if any perks come with that. I think I'll try cursing Spendi with only rational and logical thoughts all the days of his life...that ought to put a hitch in his psycho git' along!
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 02:17 pm
I've heard wittier non-answers than that.

Anyway-- AIDs-ers can't lay a curse. Nor a charm. And for them to try to is ridiculous.

BTW. I defined "controversial issues" the other day as "rumpy-pumpy" just so you can read the quote properly and not become confused by diplomatic language. Unless you want to be confused I mean.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 02:20 pm
TCR
Quote:
I think I'll try cursing Spendi with only rational and logical thoughts all the days of his life...that ought to put a hitch in his psycho git' along!




The assumption is that it -who-shall-not-be-named even has one.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 03:08 pm
spendius wrote:

Anyway-- AIDs-ers can't lay a curse. Nor a charm. And for them to try to is ridiculous.


Don't be silly. Of course they can lay them. It is the layee that needs to believe in order for them to be effective, not the layor.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 1 Apr, 2008 03:15 pm
Is that all you can muster fm in response to my last two posts. It's the seed of handbags at dawn which, direction being a characteristic of the universe, leads to pistols at dawn.

Have you really no other answer. I even self-censored a lingerie shop joke for you. Which is a bit, to stay with the metaphor, like tying one hand behind my back.

Your warning to the legislators about them being "duped" implies that you think you should be a legislator. So stand for office. It's a funny old system when voters have to warn the legislators they have chosen to do the legislating to beware of being duped.
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