Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Mr Apisa-

I don't find that in the least disagreeable.I'm surprised you think I might.

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
September 27, 2005
London TimesThe Times
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its "spiritual capital". But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: "Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

"The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so."

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world's only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from " uniquely high" adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: "The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America."

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. "I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states," he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

"The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

"The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted."

Late fifties 1£ got you four dollars.

2005 1£ gets you 1.8 dollars.

And on military power it is no contest.

It is interesting BBB but a decent counsel has some pretty big holes to shoot at.I think a state by state analysis of the "negative" factors might provide a more scientific analysis.I'm not sure a comparison with other countries ought to be based on a single issue.There are many other factors at work.

BTW-I'm neutral.I was simply trying to raise the debate to a courtroom a little.

BBB, That is so funny! Religion is the cause of most societal problems. It seems obvious; those countries with religion seem to have a higher rate of crime. It also causes tribal conflicts as evidenced in so many cultures/countries. Now, if we can only do away with religion. LOL

It might be easier doing away with alcohol.

Spendus


Actually, it might be harder. We tried that by amending the constitution, then reversing the error. We didn't get rid of alcohol, but we did get organized crime.

Some would say we already have organized crime in religion, so I think we have to get rid of sex to solve both problems.

BBB :wink:

You could take this thread to other levels with an idea like that BBB.

Spendius


Are you prepared to rise to the occasion?

BBB

Well i don't want to be murdered by fundi's but a great question that turns up alot in my religion class (i'm in a jesuit school) is hasn't religion killed more than it's saved... and caused more trouble than good....

Milfmaster9, Good question. That's the essence of BBB's posted article.

Well if you think about it, haven't more people died in the name of Jesus, than have been saved by him.... Countless crusades and jihads back that up....

BBB.-I tried it already but it didn't go down too well.They all thought I was nuts.They couldn't see that all these problems were due to people and people were due to f*****g and they didn't think it was right to stop f*****g because every now and again they got a shot at f*****g and they couldn't imagine life without that.

Can you seriously suggest BBB that somebody who eschews f*****g would go and get measured for a suit or trim his tash or buy a Ferrari or train to win an Olympic Gold Medal and be Sportsman of the Year.

But there is need for religion.. It's where society gets it's morals and basis for it's laws.. Well if there is no god, hypethetically (now that is a word I would love to spell properly) then what is the point in our existance.. If there is no chance or something after, this.. And surely there must be justice for if there was no god then a man could commit thousands of murders, rapes and crimes against his fellow man and in death remain unpunished.. He has to pay for his crimes and in fact a belief in god means he will suffer for his deeds..

BBB name a society without a religion?

Really!

We get our morals from religion???

You are absolutely certain that we do not simply invent gods...build religions around those gods...and then embue the god with our own morals?



Maybe it doesn't have a "point." Maybe we are just "living" and "existing."





"After this?"

Do you think all this is going somewhere?

Or did you mean..."...if there is no chance" for you after you die?




Yup. Doesn't sound fair, does it? But...

...life often is not fair.



A "belief in god" is just that...a "belief in god."

If there is no god...it wouldn't matter if every last human on the planet "believed in god"...would it?

well believe in something that will save me anyways... who cares bout all of yous...

What did Marx say...
Religion is the Opium of the People..

He just might be true but nobody will truely know until they die..

I believe Milfmaster answered the basic premise of why religion is needed; they do not want to accept that "this is all there is."

Well Mr Apisa-

Not too long ago you told us about a bit of a set to you had with two bints.

Now the only reason that could possibly be interesting is that it is sinful.Avant Gard if you prefer.A bit over the top of something or other.

Why would an SDer have any interest in such a trivial happening?

Well isn't atheism very pessimistic in nature?

It might depend on whether the particular aetheist had a boil up his nose or had just won the lottery.