Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Ignorance is bliss, aye spendy, I agree a healthy religious foundation is an awesome way in which to pacify individuals who would be otherwise disgraced by there living situations. In that sense religion is a very effective societal control mechanism.

What does ID have to offer, apart from the above said ignorance?

for other science professionals, like me,

whose main areas arent comparative paleo or comparative genomics

"The knowledge of our anatomy is unintelligible without the knowledge of its evolution".

by structures alone , we can see how we developed from "Our inner fish".

Shubins recent skut-work research (when he and TEd DAeschler spent 4 tiring years on Ellsmere Island trying to find an "intermediate" fossil that linked fish and amphibians--based solely on the prediction that said'If the next , most primitive fih was found in the mid-lower Devonian sediments of PEnnsylvania, then a real next step ought to be found in the next younger sediments of the upper-lower Devonian sediments)

Neil SHubins new book "YOUR INNER FISH" is a popularly written piece of work from a well known paleontologist and teacher of comparative anatomy at U if Chicagos med school. The book is a great piece of introductory work for those who want an accesible work on comparative genomics and evolutionary paleo. (Its also a great work for other science professionals, like me, whose main areas arent comparative paleo or comparative genomics). I found the books points, borne from Shubins recent skut-work research (when he and TEd DAeschler spent 4 tiring years on Ellsmere Island trying to find an "intermediate" fossil that linked fish and amphibians--based solely on the prediction that said'If the next , most primitive fih was found in the mid-lower Devonian sediments of PEnnsylvania, then a real next step ought to be found in the next younger sediments of the upper-lower Devonian sediments)
Shubin and DAeschler"s discovery, combined with the newer science of "comparative,fossil DNA", validates Mayrs stament of "
"The knowledge of our anatomy is unintelligible without the knowledge of its evolution".

The science of comparative anatomy is taken beyond the early bio labs when we all dissected worms , fish, aand fetal pigs and memorized homologous and analogous structures. Shubins book takes our ancestry back to the shallow streams of the Devonian and,makes one realize the evidence for an immense chain of life that lies unbroken for a billion years or more. If you read his book, you, like I was, may forget about the argument that humans shared a common ancestor with the apes when , by structures alone , we can see how we developed from "Our inner fish".

PS, its a fast read and quite an enjoyable ride, (if your mind is on an "open" function)

Northeast Florida balks at evolution
(By Matt Soergel, The Florida Times-Union, January 17, 2008 )

School boards across Northeast Florida are objecting to Florida's proposed new science standards that would, for the first time in state history, require schools to teach that evolution is the backbone of all biological science.

The boards in St. Johns and Baker counties have unanimously passed resolutions urging the Florida Department of Education to back down from those new standards on evolution. The matter comes up tonight in Clay County, and Nassau and Putnam counties have similar resolutions pending.

Rural Taylor County, southeast of Tallahassee, was the first to approve a resolution on the matter, according to the state Department of Education. Baker was second and St. Johns third, on Tuesday night.

The Duval County School Board, which oversees the largest school system in the region, has not yet made a decision on the new science standards, said Chairwoman Betty Burney.

"It hasn't come up with us yet because we've been focused on other things," she said.

The board, however, will be studying the issue. "We don't want to make any rash decisions," Burney said.

Backers of the resolutions contend they're not trying to drive evolution out of schools. Instead, they say they object to presenting evolution as - in the words of the St. Johns County resolution - a "dogmatic fact."

Some school superintendents say the resolutions reflect the religious nature of their constituents in Northeast Florida.

"Of course, the farther south you get, you don't see them necessarily embracing what we are saying," said Baker County Superintendent Paula Barton. "To be honest with you, we are a strong Christian community here, and once people here have gotten a hold of [the resolution], they've certainly given it strong support."

Nassau County Superintendent John Ruis said he is a strong believer in biblical creationism. The theory of evolution has many "holes" in it, he said - and presenting it as undisputed fact "is certainly contrary to the beliefs of many people, including myself."

Clay County's retiring superintendent, David Owens, said the state is "interfering" in what should be a local matter. Other theories on the origin of life should be presented along with evolution, he said.

"I believe in the separation of church and state, but I also believe there is important information available on both sides of [evolution]," he said. "To present it in just one way is wrong."

Other backers of the resolutions say it isn't their intent to introduce into classrooms beliefs such as creationism or intelligent design.

However, said Beverly Slough of the St. Johns County School Board: "If students bring up things like that, I think they should have a forum to discuss it if they want to."

Slough helped draft a resolution that passed by a 5-0 vote Tuesday. It asked the state to revise the science standards to "allow for balanced, objective and intellectually open instruction in regard to evolution, teaching the scientific strengths and weaknesses of the theory rather than teaching evolution as dogmatic fact."

David Campbell, a science teacher at Ridgeview High School in Orange Park, was one of the writers of the new science standards on evolution. He said they won't prevent discussion on other beliefs about evolution - indeed, that's a topic that comes up regularly in class.

"I tell my students: 'I'm not asking you to believe it. I'm not asking you to accept it as the way things are. I'm asking you to understand it,' " he said.

The Department of Education is scheduled to vote on the new standards in science and other fields of study Feb. 19. In current schools standards, the word "evolution" is not mentioned. Instead, references are made to biological "changes over time."

Polls consistently show that about half of Americans don't believe in evolution. But Jay Labov, a senior adviser at the National Academy for Sciences, which advises the U.S. government, said the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

"Only science should be taught in science courses," he said. "Various forms of creationism, including intelligent design, is not considered science."

Campbell said that if alternative beliefs were put on par with evolution, who would decide which theories should be taught?

"I could teach Norse mythology," he joked.

Josh Rosenau is spokesman for the National Center for Science Education, a nonprofit group that advocates the teaching of evolution in schools. Understanding evolution is crucial, he said: "It's the foundation of all modern biology, medicine, agriculture. If you want people to go on and be successful in college, if they want to be researchers, doctors, or work in the industry, they need the background."

If Florida approves the new science standards next month, school districts will have little choice but to follow them, said Slough from the St. Johns County board.

"Then we teach the standards as written, because that's what the law requires," she said.

Barton, from Baker County, was a little more defiant.

"We'll cross that bridge once we get there," she said.

But if one has an open mind, does intellectual honesty attribute open mindedness most to the IDer who passionately embraces science but also embraces concepts that science cannot explain? Or is the scientist who dogmatically sticks to the present evidence and refuses to consider any other possibilities the more open minded?

"Of course, the farther south you get, you don't see them necessarily embracing what we are saying," said Baker County Superintendent Paula Barton. "To be honest with you, we are a strong Christian community here, and once people here have gotten a hold of [the resolution], they've certainly given it strong support."

foxfyre

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But if one has an open mind, does intellectual honesty attribute open mindedness most to the IDer who passionately embraces science but also embraces concepts that science cannot explain? Or is the scientist who dogmatically sticks to the present evidence and refuses to consider any other possibilities the more open minded?

Well, to start with, there are no valid arguments that the IDers themselves have made that havent beenDEBUNKED. How can you passionately embrace entrenched obtuseness?
You say that the scientist "dogmatically" refuses to consider other options. I say , well yeeaahh!!. When the overwhelming evidence says that something is just untrue(as ID's arguments (hence ID itself) seems to be, then why "dogmatically " embrace it?.
You want me to say that I can accept the "Concept" of ID without buying into its obvious direction of an imposed worldview. I could, but only if and only if something in ID lent itself to the realms of real possibilities or truth, so far , every argument has been squashed like a cockroach. Ya cant have it both ways foxie.
Depite the murmurings of spendi, you have cobbled no arguments, data, evidence , or evidence of othersthat allows ID to even be considered a valid scientific hypothesis. Right now, the ONLY argument that ID has forwarded is that'(To the commitedIDers) the world is so complicated that it must have had a designer". Thats the testimony of complete submission to a "higher power". Science doesnt submit to anything. SCientists can spend entire careers on dead ends and they serve as an excellent vector of the directions NOT to go or explanations NOT worthy of further consideration.

Shubins book is one that presents the subject under examination in a very readable and enjoyable fashion.

The difference between you and me, FM, is that I don't have to present my opponent's argument dishonestly so that I have more basis with which to refute it. --

Should you take my argument at face value--and I believe my argument is shared by IDers whose numbers are legio

As you no doubt know, in debate circles that is referred to as red herring or straw man

I have come to not expect anti-IDers to argue the argument made. They consistently write their own version of their opponent's argument in order to have something to attack.

foxfyre

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The difference between you and me, FM, is that I don't have to present my opponent's argument dishonestly so that I have more basis with which to refute it. --

By presenting my position dishonestly as you do so above, you are doing exactly what you say you dont do. ( thats worth 2 LOL's).
I do understand where you want to end up here but I cant understand how youre gonna get there.

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Should you take my argument at face value--and I believe my argument is shared by IDers whose numbers are legio

YAd think that with all these "legions" somebody would come up with some evidence, no? Is any IDer really looking? or are they (as I suspect) preferring diversionary tactics?

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As you no doubt know, in debate circles that is referred to as red herring or straw man

ALso, in debate "circles," facts are considered inviolate.