Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Spendi, You raised one question. I'll answer it and raise you one

Observation of the Dallas Cowgirls as a point in fact.

Why do you think Atheists cannot appreciate good health in the opposite sex of the same species (Deists call it beauty). Good reproduction characteristics (Deists call it sexy).

"Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet That was the question part

My personal favorite is rosa rugosa. The hips (berries to Deists) make a tart juice quite high in healthful vitamins. They are much utilized by overwintering wildlife around here.



They have an odor which is compatible with my olfactory senses and sense of well being. ( They smell as though they would be good to eat.) The flower although rather small by contemporary human standards have a non-threatening appearance and are often visited by honeybees. A proliferation of honeybees indicates that the weather is suitable for an abundance of insect pollinated crops. An abundance of insect pollinated crops (grapes, apples, walnuts,melons,etc.) means that there will be plenty to eat. If there is plenty to eat (deer, rabbits and bison will be fat also) then wife will probably get pregnant. I will get plenty of sex and she will cycle normally. Things will be suitable for the new baby. We will feel pretty good.

Understanding the reasoning behind the descriptions-- beautiful, pleasant, good, beneficial does not, in my experience, detract in the slightest from the experience

An Atheist cannot describe beauty Sorry Spendi, I must disagree with your assertion in regard to my last post. We do have a bit of trouble describing a God or Intelligent Designer though.) Seems like everybody does

Specific to the Cowgirls-->

A "B" or "C" cup in bra size is an indication that the female will be able to nurse offspring. A "D" cup with a booty is an indication of an "easy keeper". She will be able to maintain body condition in hard times. Broad hips (think Jennifer Lopez) means easy deliveries of your offspring. (survival of your genetic input). What is not positive (pleasant-sexy to a human) about that

Have you been reading Donne or engaging in the ideas of the Romantic movement generally.

Maybe you haven't met any real atheist materialists and after reading your post I suggest you avoid doing so. They bring to bear a truthful crudity, often dressed in scientific terms for ironic effect. "Peristaltic" comes to mind in that regard.

It goes without saying that it is unsuitable for this forum. A double page feature on Kylie Minogue's bottom, which she had been exploiting commercially at that time, appeared in our leading satirical magazine (VIZ) a couple of years ago. I did think of quoting from it but I prefer you to retain your romantic view of the "cowgirls".

Atheist materialism is, almost invariably, a pose. When it isn't it is a bit hard for the average American lower middle class person to tolerate.

A feminist physiologist would scoff at your post and say it was a form of attempted hypnosis but what do they know eh?

An atheist can, of course, appreciate good health in any organism.

Spendi, As in most other voluntary human associations most of the Atheists I know are much like me.

This is not particularly remarkable.

Some Atheists, Christians, Jews, and Muslims have given the rest a bad name.

I have read Donne a long time ago and am incurably romantic. (or imaginative). When one combines Donne with Carl Sagan and adds in a lot of Adam Smith with a dollop of Ayn Rand seasoned with the "Song of Solomon" you have the makings of a feast.

I don't see the allusion to "peristaltic". I generally prefer to term my personal interests as "catholic" , note small "c".

aka-

The Song of Solomon is pretty "peristaltic". Nancy Mitford tried to give readings from it at a posh wedding but they dragged her away.

Maybe you should become more catholic in your reading and try Mario Praz, La Mettrie, Vico (a favourite of Joyce), Frank Harris, The Divine Marquis, Joyce himself, Ludovici, Kingsley Amis and suchlike. Natalie Angier and the everfresh Ms Greer.

I can't see how an atheist, a proper one, could be romantic. Atheists are only like other people superficially.

Have you read the Materialist Theory of Mind?

Now you're just being insulting.

I wasn't intending being map.

I thought it was a well established fact.

By other people I obviously meant romantics who have to concede some level of spirituality to the romanticised object over and above the pure animal it would be otherwise.

Surely?

But the feminists say romance is rape. It was their battle cry. Hence Ms Emin's Unmade Bed artwork. That it is the weaving of a spell of magical words and rituals around an impressionable lady by a cynical bloke with a selfish objective. And most feminists are anti-IDers. And they have been winning a lot of arguments.

Some of them object to you opening the door for them. They see such things as patronising and based on the assertion that they need to have doors opened for them.

They organise courses on changing wheels on the hard shoulder to assert their independence. I saw one. It wasn't on the hard shoulder mind you and the demonstration wheels were clean and having the nuts tightened and loosened every ten minutes. On a real hard shoulder in the pouring rain and hundreds of cars racing by six feet away and the nuts having not been off for five years and full of **** they usually stand there looking forlorn.

And we all know the power of the forlorn lady.

They are pretend feminists. They are feminists when they want to be. Atheists can be like that.

I was referring to proper atheists.

You need to get beyond the artifice of proper v. improper. There is life beyond tea, fish & chips, bowler hats & warm beer.

I wasn't insulted, although the term "proper Atheist" did make me grin ,

I also recognize that "romantic" and "spiritual" are largely imaginative descriptions. It's recognizing or not recognizing those terms as imaginative that is the biggest single difference betwixt the Theist and the Atheist. IMO natch

Isaac Asimov is also "romantic", imaginative, and spiritual and Atheistic. He once described himself once as a Jewish Atheist. I know what he meant. Alan M. Dershowitz had a similar description of himself.

As far as your recommended titles. Some I have read, but there are so many books and so little time Remember I am mortal, confined in an infinity without a Paradise and wishing won't make it any different. Milton's and Dante's arguements not withstanding scrutiny.

Feminism is entirely too broad a category for it to be able to be used in support any definition of "romantic". Basically it has come to mean practically any woman who is not barefoot, pregnant, and supported by a man. You can do better

IMO "romantic" and "spiritual" are WILLFULL suspensions of observations.

That's for sure; for some people, war can be "romantic."

Somebody recommended this book to me. Has anyone read it? Do you think its worth reading?

hey spidey ! u r alive!!!

Aap ki dua se...

I missed you vinny!

me too ... :hugs:

Hugging has been done on the Brit's thread.

Too bad we let those "romantics" run things, isn't it ?

It's a bit difficult to decide whether that drollery is satirical, sarcastic or ironic.

Whichever, it would take 10,000 words to examine it even superficially.

The last time a serious romantic got to "run things" he blew Europe up and lifted the USA a few rungs up the ladder.

But there's no way that an anti-ID, atheist materialist could allow one scorrick of romanticism to enter his mental furnishings without causing a good deal of tittering.

However "romantic" Valentine cards are, or chocolate boxes, or candlelit dinners for two, they are all provided and produced by stern rationalists and something akin to an assembly line.

Anyone who wishes to retain some semblances of the romantic delusion in national life had better get on the ID side and the quicker the better,

Ha, did you hear the rumors, vinny?

Aaj kal tere mere....

What's your point my dear?

Are you bored in your usual haunts.

Don't try emptying us out with vacuity and witlessness.

What do you mean--- The Last Time

Where have you been since 1945

Romantics that cannot distinguish between the way things are and the way that they wish they were have caused more difficulties for other humans than nearly any other facet of human nature. This didn't stop with Hitler, and I doubt very seriously that it will stop with Bush.

Next point, So what if it causes a good deal of tittering I have been debating myself for sixty years


(Quote spendi)
"Anyone who wishes to retain some semblances of the romantic delusion in national life had better get on the ID side and the quicker the better"

I suspect that most of them already are They are called Deists, Theists, and Big Bangers. (not to be confused with Holy Rollers)