Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

So, all you, Spendi, are offering still, after all this pouting, is just a second untestable hypothesis, to wit: that a god, or gods, (could be many, you haven't said) poofed the universe (this one at any rate) into existence. Bully for you but of no value.

The rest, as you say, is derivative and, boy howdy, haven't the believers been working at that for lo these many years, creating not one, but thousands of gods, all of whom are proclaimed to be the true creator in the Intelligent Design myth. Where to sign up? Is your Church, (I love the use and mis-use of capitals, don't you?) open on Tuesdays after eight?
I wouldn't want to fall in with the wrong bunch.

Meanwhile, as to origins of any of the universes, we don't know yet.

Joe(and neither do you.)Nation

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Joe (Am I the only one pouting?) Nation wrote-

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The rest, as you say, is derivative and, boy howdy, haven't the believers been working at that for lo these many years, creating not one, but thousands of gods, all of whom are proclaimed to be the true creator in the Intelligent Design myth.

Obviously. Tailor-made gods. Suckitandsee gods. Run him up the flagpole and see who salutes. Or her some say. Dancing crazes, incense trips, hymn singing, relief from egomania, frock and bonnet displays, humiliating bollockings, contract distribution, marriage arrangements to ensure property agglomerations, ritualised drama, dignity for grubs, free membership, job opportunities, advice centre, comfort in tribulation, bar and conveniences douncestears, praise the Lord. Hallelujah!!

Prevents time being one long dreary attendance to biological necessities and psychological imperitives derived from TV advertising.

In one of Sartre's plays the serious anti-IDer kneels at the altar rails and prays pitifully to be given faith which his reason has denied him.

Well- missing out on all that must be pretty sterile. He probably had a dose as the shy, chaste ladies had all been fixed up in the churchyard by the ID-iots.

Social consequences dear boy. Only game in town. It's only a spiritual belief that you are an American. I don't know that Bill Burroughs shared it and Dylan said that he was Jewish when he wanted to be.

What is an anti-IDer's definition of a wedding? It can't be two people being joined together in the eyes of God now can it?

We won't ever know the slightest thing about origins. But there are a lot of good jobs posited on the belief that we will. Very good jobs often if viewed from a narrow, materialistic perspective which is a perspective that has now arrived in its full bloom and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that all your thoughts and feelings are programmed inanimate objects. Inspiring isn't it?

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Very good jobs often if viewed from a narrow, materialistic perspective which is a perspective that has now arrived in its full bloom and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that all your thoughts and feelings are programmed inanimate objects

All that highpowered praying, poofed all these medical advances into being.
GIMME AN AMEN!!

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I don't see what praying, always high-powered of course, has to do with advances in medical science. I think there is just as much chance of religious belief helping medical research as hindering it.

You have a non sequitur on your hands there I think in addition to the tautology and the general all round expectation of ignorance and stupidity in the viewers.

Medical advances seem to me to be powered by wealth creation providing allocatable resources and Christian ethics influencing the direction of those allocations. Isn't it more trial and error than anything with errors being buried. Most of the drugs in use I gather are simply a result of the application of industrial techniques to substances known about for many a long year such as digitalis in the foxglove and the ingredient in oily fish.

I read that drug company employees comb ancient literature for clues. Once identified a substance is then subjected to a process not unlike that of beer production. It hardly requires scientific genius. A devout person could manage it just as easily as an apostate. Maybe easier.

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spendius wrote:

A devout person could manage it just as easily as an apostate. Maybe easier.

Every time I think I've read the most inane and ridiculous thing ever posted on the internet, someone proves me wrong.

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spendi

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I have a non sequitur on my hands there I think in addition to the tautology and the general all round expectation of ignorance and stupidity in the viewers.

Dont be so critical of yourself spendi. Youre working as hard as youre able

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spendi, Do you think the answer to a prayer is a miracle? Why hasn't god replaced an amputated arm or leg? Is that too difficult for god?

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The anti-IDer shows his true colours.

He alters something I wrote and quotes it as it it was mine.

That is real desperation.

I wonder what they do with their scientific papers if they are up for strokes like that.

c.i. I'm afraid I cannot relate to your question.

Wilso- If your latest inanity is intended to question my statement-

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A devout person could manage it just as easily as an apostate. Maybe easier.

which I notice cannot be certain, perhaps you might explain what you find objectionable in it as a response to fm's sarcasms. I think that many medical researchers are devoutly religious. It may well be an inane remark in that it is obvious but there is a need for you to consider the inanity which caused me to think it worth saying.

What you have said is meaningless. It is just a blurt of no literary merit, requiring no effort, degradingly unoriginal and of that type of expostulation often to be heard in the playgrounds of girl's schools in lower middle-class catchment areas.

Have you been under the continuous influence of the gentler sex long? You should do something about it you know.

Assuming you are a chap which I must admit having thought to be the case up until now.

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Every time I think I've read the most inane and ridiculous thing ever posted on the internet, someone proves me wrong.

Yes indeed- it is quite ladylike on reflection.

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The veripatetic image of the impossible Gracehoper on his odderkop in the myre, after his thrice ephemeral journeeys, sans mantis ne shooshooe, featherweighed animule, actually and presumptuably sinctifying chronic's despair, was sufficiently and probably coocoo much for his chorus of gravitates.

Finnegans Wake.

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What's the point of all this arguing. No one will ever convince the other. Beliefs are fine and wondeful and people should be left to pursue whatever they will. Why can't we all just get along eh?

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Quincy wrote:

What's the point of all this arguing. No one will ever convince the other. Beliefs are fine and wondeful and people should be left to pursue whatever they will. Why can't we all just get along eh?

As soon as the IDers stop forcing other to listen to their nonsense......

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It's not only a matter of "listening," but forcing their beliefs through the legislative process to teach ID in science class. Otherwise, there woujld be no "issue."

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Quincy wrote-

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What's the point of all this arguing. No one will ever convince the other. Beliefs are fine and wondeful and people should be left to pursue whatever they will. Why can't we all just get along eh?

Don't be so bloody daft. We thrive on antagonism. Government and opposition. Counsel for the accused and for the state. Sport. Sexual politics. Fighting in pubs. Satire.

You're a budding dictator in the having your ears dried phase.

There's nothing more boring and humdrum than bloody virtue. And in the real world, as opposed to the Hollywood version, virtue gets **** on.

mappie wrote-

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As soon as the IDers stop forcing other to listen to their nonsense......

Yeah well- as soon as the anti-IDers stop forcing others to listen to their nonsense...... morelike.

mappie has over-ruled your interjection I think.

And what about the cashflow. You wouldn't want all those arteries that run through the offices of the lawyers and the mediacorps and their trapped before the snake customers and the publishers to say nothing of the men on the front line some of whom, I hear, have more than one establishment to keep up, to go getting all gunged up with atrophying plaque and gunge and start going slower and slower would you? Not in your heart of hearts surely.

Remember the great eastern sage- "He who sits in middle of road gets run over by traffic going in both directions."

It's pretty good advice I think.

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c.i.

I hardly think "forcing" is appropriate. They are going through proper legal channels I think. No forcing involved.

Obviously you smell defeat and are accusing the other side of underhand tactics.

It will all be in open court won't it? A judge will surely intervene if he sees the first sign of any forcing. A good old fashioned democratic fudge will result I imagine. A trundle forward. Business as usual.

"Noontime, I'm still pushing myself along the road, the darkest part
Whoaoo, into the narrow lanes, I can't stumble or stay put."

Bob Dylan.

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spendi,

c.i. was specifically referring to legislative attempts. Various state legislatures have introduced bills to insinuate ID into science education. Most states have simply allowed such bills to "die" in committee.

The only court case I am aware of is "Association of Christian Schools v. Roman Stearns". This case only involves ID indirectly. Christian schools in the United States are private schools. Private schools may, if they wish, teach intelligent design as science. The only ID angle is whether a public university can refuse to give science credit for high school biology classes that rely on ID or creationism.

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I know all that wande apart from the names which don't much matter. I was objecting to the use of the word "forcing".

And c.i.'s implied accusation that anything other than perfectly legal processes are being practiced by his opponents. Force is a state monopoly I think. By using the word he was besmirching the integrity of anti-IDers many of whom have fought for those legal processes having priority over force.

It is a science thread and that discipline when pursued with even a modicum of discipline does require a certain exactitude in its terms.

Once we allow anti-IDers to start loosening up their terms anything might happen.

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On reflection wande, my concentration having been in relaxed mode earlier, your use of the word "insinuate" is not unlike c.i.'s use of the word "forcing".

Both are attempts to claim that the other side are not being fair. Which everybody knows is what schoolgirls say when they can't get all their own way.

There is no insinuation involved. It's all out in open court. I have seen nobody yet coming in on a back-door beamer.

Like c.i. you are like all defeated plonkies who can't face up to their humiliation and start asserting emotionally loaded words to try to cover up their shame and loss of dignity.

I think your side would have been well advised to allow the authorities in Dover to read out the five (was it) paragraphs and we could all be going on our way. They would have been forgotten about the day after they were read out by even those keen students who were daft enough to listen and could follow the what the phewk the phewking grown-ups were on about in their dotage.

Assuming the cashflow argument is not top of the taxpayer's list of important issues I mean.

If you want to talk about "insinuation" I think you might be better looking into that aspect of matter.

I would imagine, assuming that opinion polls are correct, that if a public university denies credit to high school biology classes that rely on ID or creationism it might be time for real estate speculators to begin looking into possible alternative uses of the sites on which they have their fat arses squatted upon.

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spendi, You must be careful in using such words as "dignity" when you talk about other people. You're already labeled as the humour man on these threads, and it's not because you make a lot of sense.

UC Berkeley, one of the premier universities in California, refuses to give credit to ID-science courses for entry or matriculation.

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I think your side would have been well advised to allow the authorities in Dover to read out the five (was it) paragraphs and we could all be going on our way.

9 Families saw this as "forcing" a state religion upon their children. In that respect, the Dover case merely had to prove that the several paragraphs passed the Lemon Test and whether, by so allowing them in the school, was the school endorsing the religious based view of ID.

Obviously speni missed the findings and verbal abuse piled on the president of the schoolboard and his lackets.

BTW, the former schoolboard director is somehwere in the Bible belt keeping a low profile.
His overzealous reactions have cost the good people of Dover over 2 million dollars (excluding the ACLU fees which were waived.

When spendi is able to get a clue, Ill be ecstatic.

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What sort of a lawyer would not salivate at the thought of costing "the good people of Dover over 2 million dollars ".

That would be tantamount to a hungry monkey not salivating at the sight of a bunch of bananas.

Darwin would have pissed himself at the idea.

But it's of small account really. "Overzealous reactions" have been known to cost a lot more than that on many occasions in human history.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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