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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 31 May, 2006 12:41 pm
How embarrassing these things are for those in any given state who don't have a religious agenda . . .
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 31 May, 2006 01:08 pm
Yes-I can see it might be in view of the words you have used about IDers applying to the elected representitives of one of the States of the Union.

I don't think the "live and let lives" in the states without a religious agenda will feel embarrassed.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 31 May, 2006 01:10 pm
Setanta wrote:
How embarrassing these things are for those in any given state who don't have a religious agenda . . .


In my opinion the evolution battle in South Carolina is even more convoluted than the battle in Kansas.

However, a top Republican in Kansas announced yesterday that he is switching to the Democratic Party. He asserted that Kansas Republicans have moved too far to the right (citing the change in science education standards, among other examples).
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Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 31 May, 2006 01:50 pm
That's interesting--especially since some long time conservatives consider that the Shrub and crew have a liberal agenda. These "hot button" issues muddy the political waters considerably, and will likely make life difficult for a lot of politicians at the level of the states, if not the Federal level.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 31 May, 2006 02:00 pm
wande wrote-

Quote:
However, a top Republican in Kansas announced yesterday that he is switching to the Democratic Party. He asserted that Kansas Republicans have moved too far to the right (citing the change in science education standards, among other examples).


Well-you don't want the ring all cluttered up with wishie-washies when the bell goes.

And I had been led to believe that they were all stupid, IDiotic, superstitious no-hopers who would slink off chagrined with their tail between their legs and rubbing their bottoms sheepishly when JJ wafted his 139 pages of currency notes at them. Is this Able Not 2 Know? Or what?
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blatham
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:55 am
Quote:
Did you think my post on "urban intellectuals" was vapid.

I'll bet Bernie doesn't agree.


Bernie doesn't. Unless vapid might mean something like delightful.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 06:51 am
blatham wrote:
... Unless vapid might mean something like delightful.




There ya go, folks - yer quintessential urban intellectual in action ... Twisted Evil
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 07:15 am
Nah timber-

Bernie's a country boy at heart. I know the signs.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 08:46 am
SOUTH CAROLINA UPDATE

Quote:
High school biology standards cleared for June 12 adoption
(BY MINDY B. HAGEN, Charleston Post and Courier, June 1, 2006)

The impasse to potential changes to high school biology standards has ended, with the state Board of Education and Education Oversight Committee reaching a long-awaited agreement on the guidelines that govern teaching evolution and other scientific theories.

On Wednesday, the state Board of Education unanimously voted to send the biology standards back to the oversight committee for final approval, without the scrutinized 'critical analysis' phrase that drew science educators' ire. The committee is scheduled to adopt the standards at its June 12 meeting.

While all other academic standards were approved by the oversight committee in the fall, controversy erupted concerning the biology guidelines. The recommended wording called for students to 'demonstrate an understanding of biological evolution and the diversity of life.'

But a group of lawmakers and the oversight committee, which includes state Sen. Mike Fair, R-Greenville, fought to make the standards more specific by adding that students should 'use data from a variety of scientific sources to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory.'

Biology teachers and science educators rallied against that proposed change, arguing that 'critical analysis' would push aside evolutionary theory and Darwinism and potentially open the door to religious teachings about creationism in the classroom.

Every five years, the state Board of Education and oversight committee must give the go-ahead before teaching standards are enacted and the disagreement over 'critical analysis' caused a stalemate between the governing agencies.

But discussions in recent weeks and a compromise reached as part of the Legislature's annual budget, helped bring about progress. The budget calls on the state Department of Education to buy textbooks that use 'higher-order thinking skills and critical thinking, which should be integrated throughout the core curriculum.' With the critical thinking issue now addressed by the purchase of new textbooks in all subjects, proponents who wanted similar language inserted in the biology standards backed off their demands.

Jo Anne Anderson, executive director of the oversight committee, said the idea of using 'critical thinking' as a guideline when selecting textbooks satisfied those people who wanted to see similar language inserted as part of the state curriculum standards.

'It would have been nice if we had been able to resolve this six months ago, but this process has allowed South Carolina to have a full airing of this issue,' Anderson said.

After Wednesday's OK from the state board, the biology standards will become final if adopted by the oversight committee June 12.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 08:49 am
Good news from South Carolina, Wandel, thank you again for your efforts to keep us informed.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 09:47 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
Biology teachers and science educators rallied against that proposed change, arguing that 'critical analysis' would push aside evolutionary theory and Darwinism and potentially open the door to religious teachings about creationism in the classroom.


I don't see why that is true. Why would "critical analysis" push aside evolutionary theory and Darwinism? It would surely demand those things to be studied.

Quote:
Jo Anne Anderson, executive director of the oversight committee, said the idea of using 'critical thinking' as a guideline when selecting textbooks satisfied those people who wanted to see similar language inserted as part of the state curriculum standards.


Doesn't that mean that critical analysis is now approved?

Looks like a fudge to me. Is it not?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 10:34 am
spendi,

"Critical Analysis" is part of a recent trend in anti-evolution legislation. Reading the earlier news items that I posted about South Carolina may give you a better understanding of this specific anti-evolution tactic.

The shift from science curriculum legislation to school textbook budget legislation is appeasement (in my opinion).
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 10:39 am
Previously, the popular catch-phrase of the ID crowd was "teach the controversy." Science educators have pointed out that there is no controversy in the scientific community. The move to claim that "critical thinking skills" ought to be taught is an attempt to get ID/creationism in the back door, as a contrast to evolutionary theory, the teaching of which will inculcate "critical thinking skills." Such use of language is important, because it intends not only to get ID/creationism back into school curricula, but to make the effort seem entirely plausible.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:11 am
Setanta wrote-

Quote:
The move to claim that "critical thinking skills" ought to be taught is an attempt to get ID/creationism in the back door, as a contrast to evolutionary theory, the teaching of which will inculcate "critical thinking skills."


I can't see why critical thinking skills lead to ID/creationism by the back door.

Are these phrases just codes. If they are it seems to me that English language skills are being damaged. If CTS = ID/C they simply come,with use, to mean the same thing which they are not. And ID is light years away from creationism as well.

The substitution of mild or vague terms for ordinary expressions is euphemism. Such things, which are a highly developed esoteric language in some circles, are destructive of language and drive a wedge between social groups. Because euphemism is used in changing contexts it eventually comes to mean nothing and communication is lost.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:20 am
spendius wrote:
Are these phrases just codes.


You forgot to put a question mark at the end of that sentence. Yes, these are code words, buzz phrases. They are attempts to put a veneer of plausibility on tactics which seek to evade the consequences of the 1968 and 1987 Supreme Court decisions which prevent states from outlawing the teaching of evolution, and which outlaw the teaching of creationism in public schools.

I'm not surprised that you don't understand this. You have ever displayed an appalling ignorance of a subject about which you are nevertheless willing to write pages of screed. The fact of your ignorance, however, does not oblige anyone here to take you seriously if you won't admit your ignorance.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:22 am
spendius wrote:
The substitution of mild or vague terms for ordinary expressions is euphemism. Such things, which are a highly developed esoteric language in some circles, are destructive of language and drive a wedge between social groups. Because euphemism is used in changing contexts it eventually comes to mean nothing and communication is lost.


In regards to the anti-evolution movement in the United States, the playing with words is an attempt to get around statutes and court decisions.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:26 am
wande wrote-

Quote:
The shift from science curriculum legislation to school textbook budget legislation is appeasement (in my opinion).


You have to appease political realities or get ready to fight them with weapons. You might as well throw powder puffs at barn doors as use words on religious groups.

Suppose the scientists win all the word battles right up to the SC. The religious community would organise. They might withdraw their children from school and withdraw that proportion of their taxes which goes into official education. One could deal with a few doing that but not with millions organised on The Net and other avenues. Some places might even go as far as declaring independence.

They are not a pushover as some castigators seem to think. Religion is at the very centre of their lives.

This whole business has played into their hands by raising the ante and politicising the sides which were reasonably content with things as they stood.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:29 am
spendius wrote:
And ID is light years away from creationism as well.


I told myself i'd ignore this, but i'm not going to do so. When the 1987 Supreme Court decision was handed down, books which were ready to go to print were altered in the galley proofs, literally to change "creationism" to "intelligent design." There is no difference between the two apart from an obscurantist attempt to alter the terminology to make it seem plausible. That is the point of all of these tricks.

This has been explained to you before, and more than once. But it doesn't sink in with you, because all you ever hear (read, that is) is your own voice (writing). You don't listen because you don't want to listen. You just come here to puke up long contrarian screeds. You just want to argue. You don't have a point and you don't have clue. You waste everyone's time.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:44 am
Setanta wrote--

Quote:
You waste everyone's time.


Don't be so crass. It ill becomes a supposedly intelligent person. Try not to include "everyone" in your own identity. Do yourself a favour. It's water off a duck's back to me.

Intelligent design has nothing whatever to do with creationism despite some galley proofs for some obscure books saying otherwise if indeed they did.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 1 Jun, 2006 11:46 am
OK, smartass, what are the substantive differences between intelligent design and creationism? No points if you are not able to actually reference texts on intelligent design.
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