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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 12:59 pm
wande quoted Steve Jones about the growth of Creationism.

Quote:
That's alarming. It shows how infectious the idea is."


Can you believe this from Jones?

Is he a communist?

The whole idea of free market capitalism is based on the notion that an infectious idea catches on,which is proof of its infectiousness, and creates a demand which is in turn catered for.

Why is that "alarming"? I ask you. Look round your house and see the myriad of manifestations of infectious ideas.

There's a market in ideas.

What Jones is bothered about is the threat to his pocket if funds are shifted into any idea that he's not sold out to. For him that is alarming I must admit and for those others who feel this threat. But for the rest of us it is simply not true. It doesn't alarm me.

He has to promote his ideas against other ideas and if he's losing, as he seems to think, it's only alarming subjectively and that sure ain't no science so it's fair to assume that the rest of what he says is self-serving tripe as well.

BTW I heard the live discussion between Jones and MacKay on BBC Radio 2. It was a split decision. There were both as bad as each other. But I'll bet MacKay can Wow a meeting hall the better.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 01:05 pm
I don't understand how or why i quoted myself, so let's all just ignore that, 'K?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 01:13 pm
As Whistler said to Wilde." That was very clever Oscar, I wish Id have said that."
To which Wilde said "You will James, you will" Very Happy
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 01:16 pm
That's what comes of doing research over and over.

It's best to let it come out of its own accord.

"Escaping on the run" so to speak.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 03:25 pm
spendi: "Escaping on the run" so to speak.

Straight to the pub.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 04:19 pm
In the far north of the province of Québec, Pentacostals are spreading their sect like wildfire among the Inuit. I've twice heard a report of a teacher there who has been told to stop teaching the theory of evolution, because it is offensive to them. He was interviewed on CBC--and he said that one village elder became angry and said: "We're not descended from monkeys." I haven't found a link to an article online yet, but i'll post it in the event i run across one. (Can't spend a lot of time right now, i'm making dinner, and need to wash some dishes.)
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 18 May, 2006 05:41 pm
Setanta,

So the controversy is spreading in Canada?

That McGill University professor I posted about was having trouble getting a grant from the Canadian government.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:44 am
I'll go look again for that story about the teacher among the Inuit.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:49 am
Darwin's theory not allowed in North Quebec schools

Last updated May 19 2006 07:28 AM EDT

CBC News

Teachers in some northern Quebec communities are being told not to talk about the evolution of humans because Darwin's theory offends some Inuit people.

Alexandre April is a teacher in Salluit, Que., who says his school principal told teachers not to talk about the evolution of man.


Full story at CBC Montréal

This just appeared online within the last hour. They are interviewing another gentleman (a habitant who is an education advocate) on the radio as i'm posting this. One of the emphases in all the stories i've heard is that the Pentacostals have been furiously proselytizing amond the Inuit (that's "Eskimo" for those who are a little clueless about these things).
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 08:32 am
UK UPDATE

Quote:
OCR says 'intelligent design', creation not on the curriculum
(BHA Press Release, 19 May 2006)

The exam board at the centre of a storm surrounding the teaching of creationism has committed to re-visit its guidance to avoid the threat to science teaching that many feared, and to issue strict guidance to trainee teachers on their exam programme.

The 'Gateway Science' specification had caused controversy because teachers were asked to 'explain that the fossil record has been interpreted differently over time (e.g. creationist interpretation)'.

But now, in a letter to the British Humanist Association, OCR said they were 'happy to commit to reviewing the wording of this part of the Gateway Science (Biology) specification for the next edition'.

They continue that 'more immediately, we shall be issuing guidance in the many In-Service Teacher training (INSETs) and Network meetings we carry out during the year for the specification.'

OCR envisage the guidance to teachers being 'along the following lines:

'Only a creationist interpretation of the fossil record prior to, or contemporary, to Darwin needs to be explained in this context - such that students are able to understand the fundamental departure of Darwin's work from the religious norms of his time.'

Concerns had been raised that the inclusion of creation in the specification could operate as a Trojan horse for those who wish to smuggle creationism and intelligent design into their science teaching. This new guidance makes clear that this should not occur.

Andrew Copson, BHA Education Officer, said: 'We welcome the sensible decision of OCR. It is clear that they never intended that religious ideas should be taught in science, but too many creationists and advocates of intelligent design hide behind the claim that they want nothing more than for schools to 'teach the controversy'. We were concerned that by highlighting evolution as an area around which there can be controversy gave the wrong impression. Now it will be made clear that no scientific controversy does in fact exist, and there can be no teaching of religion in school science.'
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 12:55 pm
CANADA UPDATE

Quote:
School under fire for teaching evolution
(Montreal Gazette, May 19, 2006)

A high-school science teacher vowed Friday to continue telling his Inuit students about Darwin's theory of evolution, despite complaints from parents in the northern Quebec community of Salluit.

Education officials from the Kativik School Board said the principal of Ikusik High School cannot ban the teaching of evolution, since it is part of the provincial physical-science curriculum.

Alexandre April, who teaches French and physical science to students in Grades 7 and 8, said he was told repeatedly by the principal to stop teaching evolution, for fear of hurting their students' religious beliefs.

The Pentecostal Church is active in Salluit, a community of just more than 1,100 people located beside Ungava Bay, on the northwestern coast of Nunavik.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 01:38 pm
OHIO UPDATE

Quote:
Intelligent design ruling likely to cool challenges to evolution, lawyer says
(By JENNI LAIDMAN, The Toledo Blade, May 19, 2006)

Want to see an example of evolution in action? Then look at how evolution's main opponents have changed, said the lawyer who won the case against intelligent design in Dover, Pa.

They're "an excellent example of evolution in a nonbiological world," said Stephen G. Harvey, who spoke last night at the annual meeting of the Northwest Ohio chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union at the Toledo Club.

"They've adapted their strategies to a hostile legal environment. First, they pushed straight creationism, then it was creation science, then intelligent design, then 'teach the controversy,'" he said in an interview with The Blade before his speech.

Mr. Harvey co-led the ACLU's successful court battle against the teaching of intelligent design in the Dover schools. Intelligent design proponents maintain that some things in nature are too complex to have evolved and must have been made by an unnamed designer. Evolution says all living things were formed by incremental changes over time.

The strongly worded decision from U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones in the Dover case hasn't driven evolution's opponents toward extinction, but it does make future legal challenges to evolution a "hot stove" no one wants to touch, Mr. Harvey said. It could keep evolution from facing a court challenge for a long time. "They saw somebody else touch the stove and get burned. I think that's the lesson learned in Ohio," he said.

The Ohio Board of Education reversed a two-year-old policy encouraging the teaching of intelligent design after the Dover decision.

The cost of the lawsuit to Dover schools surely discourages many lawsuits. Judge Jones awarded the three groups representing the plaintiffs $2 million. Mr. Harvey's firm, Pepper Hamilton LLP, of Philadelphia, agreed to recover costs only, reducing the award to $1 million, which went to the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

If evolution lands in court again, it will be over something called "teach the controversy," Mr. Harvey said.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 02:30 pm
"Teach the controversy" is too funny to contemplate. It doesn't even mention anything to do with "religion" any more.

It's a perfect issue for any philosophy course. LOL
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 03:28 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
They're "an excellent example of evolution in a nonbiological world," said Stephen G. Harvey,



What does that mean? Is he not up to speed on the materialist theory of mind and him running fundamentalist materialism into schools and all.

What's this non-biological world he's on about. Is it a mystical state of mind? An out of body experience!

He's role playing. He's in a movie. It's another ego trip.

c.i. wrote-

Quote:
"Teach the controversy" is too funny to contemplate. It doesn't even mention anything to do with "religion" any more.

It's a perfect issue for any philosophy course. LOL


You'll have to explain that one to me mate. I can't see anything funny in it. Or original. Or worthwhile. Did you really laugh out loud or are you just pulling our little legs. May be it's just that you find your sayings funny and I don't.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 04:52 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"Teach the controversy" is too funny to contemplate. It doesn't even mention anything to do with "religion" any more.

It's a perfect issue for any philosophy course. LOL


It's the old "if you can't get it in the front door, sneak it in the back door" trick that never dies due to reincarnation of failed ideas into new packaging? That's kind of religion-like, isn't it? reincarnation?

ROFL

Oops . . . I suppose spendius is going to tell me that I'm not funny, criticize my intelligence, and kick me out of the thread again . . . .

See ya!

ROFL
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:02 pm
spendi wrote:
... May be it's just that you find your sayings funny and I don't.

And perhaps you find your ramblings pertinent, salient, humorous, relevant, or some combination thereof while others find the reverse.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:11 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
It's the old "if you can't get it in the front door, sneak it in the back door" trick that never dies due to reincarnation of failed ideas into new packaging? That's kind of religion-like, isn't it? reincarnation?


"Creationism" Arrow "Creation Science" Arrow "Intelligent Design" Arrow "Teach The Controversy" (ironically, evolution-like)
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:23 pm
. Wink Razz
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:25 pm
timber wrote-

Quote:
And perhaps you find your ramblings pertinent, salient, humorous, relevant, or some combination thereof while others find the reverse.


Well timber- I think the Materialist Theory of Mind is pertinant, salient (?). very,very humorous and extremely phukking relevant. If you are not up on it so bloody what?

We can't all be held back by your lack of education can we now. That's no way to evolve into the glorious future.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 19 May, 2006 06:29 pm
"evolve" and "evolution" seems quite appropriate./
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