Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Hi LW,
I do use smilies sometimes, but I exhumed this crowd would know the basics of electrical energy utilization, transmission implications and history. I have lived with it for so long I take it for granted being that I am an Electron Wrangler of the highest secret order of the IBEW!

Hi Set,
You don't know what you are talking about here. You are dead wrong that DC cannot be efficiently and successfully "pushed hundreds of miles over the copper wire". In fact HV DC has less losses than HV AC. The advantages of AC are not becuase of being better at "pushed hundreds of miles over the copper wire" as you claim. That is a function of the VA ratio and other factors such as impedance (RLC for AC, R for DC).

The advantages of AC are:
The ability to utilize transformers to alter the VA ratio
The ability to use poly-phase motors (a la our friend Telsa)
The ability to utilize other AC dependant inductor devices
There is more....

Time to find where the wife hid the cookies. If I find them and eat too many, my wife will be hysteresis (yes the last line is an electrical joke).

I exhume we all clear now?

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spendius wrote:

I only have personal perceptions.

Hard to qualify, quantify and rationalize arguments with personal perceptions only. Not that people don't have at it all the time in their furious little teapots (naturally as an Intelligent Electrician I am exempt from such Rolling Eyes

spendius wrote:

It isn't a Godless world. Cultural lag is a powerful force. It's a bit like the roads.You hardly notice them but you would if they vanished.

I did not say it's "a Godless world", I said it's a "relatively godless world" mega-difference!

spendius wrote:

That's true.But not on a public forum. I went as far as I'm prepared to go last week.Perhaps you missed it or didn't see its significance.

I am not sure which, it's hard to be a discriminating wide band receiver (SETI joke for LW)

spendius wrote:

What's the active ingredient in the cookies?

Magic Magnetism (electrical theological alliteration joke for Set)!

spendius wrote:

I can't think what you mean there. Or with the other two.

OK I'll explain further:

I said: "PS: Do you fashion yourself an underground fighter in a self-destructing technological society such as represented by semiconductors?" This is in reference to your "The Naked Lunch" quote. Do you understand Mr Burrough's underlying ideas in the book? If you do my meaning should be clear.

I said: "PPS: Do you feel that way about electron tubes? How about AC generation as per transformers being inappropriate?

PPPS: Do you think that DC is the way to go and Edison should have won the day?" Ok, given that you referred to "The Naked Lunch" and hence inferred the arguably Luddite stance of an "underground fighter in a self-destructing technological society" the PS, PPS, PPPS are references (mostly) to the history of power transmission, and where you would want technology to stop or slow down.

Get it, got it, good!

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Setanta wrote:

Well, the joke doesn't work unless one (who is not an electrician) has the wireless transmission issue pointed out . . .

So if you don't understand my inference, my joke "won't work". But by the same token if you make a literary or historical or theological joke with an inference your joke works?

Sometimes you have to work at figuring things out and resist from vapid claims such as:
"without due consideration"
"You have casually, and i suspect from mere ignorance, slandered George Westinghouse in a manner he does not deserve."

BTW people with an engineering / electronics / electrical background could get my joke, and for those that don't, Google is your friend.

Sometimes yer just a big wiener is all!

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Seems to me Set's been challenging almost everybody these days; not sure he's getting up in the morning on the right side of the bed. Wink

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I don't think Set's manhood was ever in question. LOL

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I like the multiple entendre!

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Chum wrote-

Quote:

Hard to qualify, quantify and rationalize arguments with personal perceptions only.

As an eager learner I would be pleased to know what kind of perceptions are not personal.

Quote:

I did not say it's "a Godless world", I said it's a "relatively godless world" mega-difference!

If you wish to debate within the 49.9 to 51.1 range I don't think you'll ever get anywhere. Anti-IDers debate religious belief versus atheism on the safe ground of knowing religious belief remains a factor to save them from the Godless world they argue for. It's a bit like the little dog barking at a big one safely fastened up.

I'm not an underground fighter in the least. I'm for the status quo with gradual,well thought out adjustments.

I think I understand Mr Burroughs. Social control by molly-coddling wasn't it?

But he did shoot his wife right between the eyes in front a a bunch of witnesses and got away with it. That's pretty good I should say.

Have you not picked up yet that I'm a Faustian? I think you anti-IDers are the Luddites. I've never seen anybody stick to one simple idea so firmly as anti-IDers do. They are heading towards locking the classroom up in the further reaches of the asymptote and it will cause them to have their heads sharpened into finer and finer points as their brains adapt to burrowing through harder and harder rock.

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I work almost exclusively with low voltage lighting -- in 12 V AC it requires at least 12 ga. wiring, and often I have used 8 ga. for long distances. Recently had to do it with lighting a covered patio overlooking the Pacific at a restaurant in Laguna Beach. I have only dealt with DC low voltage in more compact application like an aircraft cockpit. From all the technical data I've the NEC and Underwriter's Labs, low AC or DC voltage cannot really be efficiently wired into any large structure as of now. Super conductors are the wave of the future and that will change things. As of now, the transformers in a large home have to be placed within 10 t0 12 feet from the track or recessed lighting device. Even with 8 GA which is more like a cable, I can't load more than 300 watts onto an 8' low voltage track any more than 25 feet away.

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One thing you equipment fetishists and technical shamans ought to know is that there are no ladies on this thread to impress.

Now if you were to score a winning goal in a big match or put Numbersixvalledeverde (?) perfectly at the last fence after nearly 4 +1/2 miles to land a large scale betting coup it would be different.

You can buy electricians and even hire them by the hour. You don't even know what electricity is and it's your God but I will admit that it works real miracles

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Chumly, staring in a mirror and mumbling about weinies, wrote:

Quote:

Setanta wrote:
Well, the joke doesn't work unless one (who is not an electrician) has the wireless transmission issue pointed out . . .
So if you don't understand my inference, my joke "won't work". But by the same token if you make a literary or historical or theological joke with an inference your joke works?

Sometimes you have to work at figuring things out and resist from vapid claims such as:
"without due consideration"
"You have casually, and i suspect from mere ignorance, slandered George Westinghouse in a manner he does not deserve."

BTW people with an engineering / electronics / electrical background could get my joke, and for those that don't, Google is your friend.

Sometimes yer just a big wiener is all!

I don't make jokes about history which are referential, unless i konw that someone like Walter or Asherman is around who will "get" the joke. Your remark was sufficient obscure, and had none of the hallmarks of humor--get over it.

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Chum-

How about explaining the joke then? I like a good laugh.

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Who said it was for the purpose of impressing the "ladies?" There they go again with the sexist, mysoginistic comments from the peanut head gallery. Quit while you're behind 'cause the hole is already twenty-feet deep. This thread has been in subjective limbo for several weeks -- a little jarring with some diversion into other subjects won't hurt a bit.

The emoticons are helpful if one is not being serious. I never had a lot of respect for Edison when he tried playing big business man on top of inventing practically everything (in his own mind Very Happy

) His devotion to DC was really short sighted and he wasn't as much a scientist as he was a would-be marketing maven.

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LW wrote-

Quote:

The emoticons are helpful if one is not being serious.

Oh! Don't worry about that LW.I know you are serious.It sticks out like a gouty toe.

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Setanta wrote:

Chumly, staring in a mirror and mumbling about weinies, wrote:

Quote:
Setanta wrote:
Well, the joke doesn't work unless one (who is not an electrician) has the wireless transmission issue pointed out . . .
So if you don't understand my inference, my joke "won't work". But by the same token if you make a literary or historical or theological joke with an inference your joke works?

Sometimes you have to work at figuring things out and resist from vapid claims such as:
"without due consideration"
"You have casually, and i suspect from mere ignorance, slandered George Westinghouse in a manner he does not deserve."

BTW people with an engineering / electronics / electrical background could get my joke, and for those that don't, Google is your friend.

Sometimes yer just a big wiener is all!

I don't make jokes about history which are referential, unless i konw that someone like Walter or Asherman is around who will "get" the joke. Your remark was sufficient obscure, and had none of the hallmarks of humor--get over it.

The theories and applications presented back then as just as valid/invalid now and are well known today. If you wanna to view Tesla myopically from an out of date historical reference only, go ahead, it simply shows your ignorance of the technical implications as per my prior posts. Further I'll make jokes as I see fit, but if you wanna be the A2K self-styled Joke Police don't me stop you. Entertain me!

Set a.k.a. JPW (joke police wiener)
Unlax Doc Laughing

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Lightwizard wrote:

I work almost exclusively with low voltage lighting -- in 12 V AC it requires at least 12 ga. wiring, and often I have used 8 ga. for long distances. Recently had to do it with lighting a covered patio overlooking the Pacific at a restaurant in Laguna Beach. I have only dealt with DC low voltage in more compact application like an aircraft cockpit. From all the technical data I've the NEC and Underwriter's Labs, low AC or DC voltage cannot really be efficiently wired into any large structure as of now. Super conductors are the wave of the future and that will change things. As of now, the transformers in a large home have to be placed within 10 t0 12 feet from the track or recessed lighting device. Even with 8 GA which is more like a cable, I can't load more than 300 watts onto an 8' low voltage track any more than 25 feet away.

I've done tons of LV wiring, mostly commercial and industrial, mostly for controls. You know PLC's and such. Fertilizer plants, gas plants, auto tire plants. For the LV lighting applications you refer to, in order to have decent VA (volt-amps) you need higher currents = higher wire sizes as you are using lower voltages. Notice I don't say watts as that can be inaccurate in AC circuits due to power factor (RLC as mentioned earlier) hence VA is more accurate.

I've done a fair bit of medium HV as per transformers and switch gear for mains installs in commercial and industrial applications, also a few years of marine wiring (BC Ferries).

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spendius wrote:

Chum-

How about explaining the joke then? I like a good laugh.

I'll put it together fer yah, I gotta go buy a bunch of motorcycle insurance now.

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Also done fiber optic light (in it's larger cable versions) to light an entire house from single light sources and outdoors, like around pools. Fun stuff. My back patio is a new candidate to tear out all the lo-vo and install all fiberoptic.l

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I'm a thinkin' we should hook up spendius' toes to a generator and give him a good dose of God. (no emoticon)

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Ya wanna see some wierd effects from radiated electrical energy - wireless power transmission of a sort - get real close to an in-service major TV or radio transmission tower. Theres a very good reason them puppies are behind very tall, very sturdy fences.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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